Can we just all agree that if TR falls to 17...
by M Shop on Jan 18, 2012 5:32 PM EST
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Can we just all agree that if Trent Richardson falls to the Bengals that ITS A MUST PICK! I've kind of been back and forth on this, but think about who the offense would be made up of: Dalton, Green, Gresham, Shipley, RICHARDSON. I've heard the argument that you don't draft RBs in the first round, and you can create success in the run game through the O-Line...but come on...Richardson is a beast. Half of the yards he gained last year were after contact. He can catch, and more importantly...he can block. And I don't particularly think the O-line (pending losses in FA) is all that bad. Benson has just been terrible. Go Richardson, then best available DB and draft O-line in the second round. Or even in FA. There just isn't talent like Richardson available. And for those of you that don't think drafting a RB in the first round is a good idea...do you really pass on Richardson if he's there? And are you able to deal with the consequences if you do?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors.
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i dont think many people will be pissed with drafting richardson
The only players in this draft I’d take over Richardson are kalil, and Claireborn.
by JCompton41 on Jan 18, 2012 6:07 PM EST via mobile reply actions
And Luck ;)
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 18, 2012 6:59 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
hes not in this draft
He’s on the colts.
by JCompton41 on Jan 18, 2012 7:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If I'm running the show and Richardson and DeCastro somehow both slip to 17, I'm taking DeCastro.
But if DeCastro is gone at that point (which I think he will be), I’m taking Richardson over any other player there.
Cincy Jungle: Where the Rocky Mountains are in the Pacific Ocean
i was debating that too.
I’m 50 50 on that.
by JCompton41 on Jan 18, 2012 6:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Can't argue there is a need at Guard
I’m pretty sure that next to all the talk about trading Carson Palmer the second most talked about issue was the guard position (aka Nate Linvings). So I get that DeCastro would be a huge upgrade, but I still think you take Richardson. Richardson offers three things the Bengals don’t really have: a STUD in between the tackles runner, a solid passing down back (Leonard is good, but it’s predictable when he’s back there), and a great blocker (all in one, mind you).
In a perfect world...
if one can make the argument that Richardson will fall to the Bengals at 17, then one could also make the argument that he could fall to them at 21. Look at the teams with the 18-20 pics: San Diego, Chicago, and Tennessee. All have their stud RBs. Wow…I just got goosebumps. Give me DeCastro AND Richardson!
i would expect someone to trade up
If we pass on Richardson at 17, someone has to jump infront of us. If I’m greenbay, and have very few needs, I’d give up a decent amount to add a player like Richardson to an offense thats nearly unstoppable already.
by JCompton41 on Jan 18, 2012 7:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Maybe not Chicago.
Forte is a free agent. If they somehow let him go and Richardson falls to us, then Chicago may be chomping at the bit for a talent like that.
Also Chris Johnson’s not a stud anymore.
"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus
no way Chicago let's forte go
if anything they franchise him….but mark my words he will NOT be let go.
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
I can respect that opinion, but I'm really high on DeCastro.
I think he can be a top-notch Guard from day one. Richardson can do the same at RB, sure, but RBs are easier to find. Adding DeCastro would give us one of the more talented lines in the NFL, and they would be able to make any number of RBs look good.
You really can’t go wrong with either one, though.
Cincy Jungle: Where the Rocky Mountains are in the Pacific Ocean
If that happens
I trade picks 21 and 75 for pick 18 and draft both. Yay!
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 18, 2012 7:01 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Contrary to popular belief, it takes two teams to make a trade.
Cincy Jungle: Where the Rocky Mountains are in the Pacific Ocean
lol
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 18, 2012 9:54 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Really, though.
The situation miraculously plays out to where DeCastro and Richardson are both available at 17. You’re Marvin Lewis, and Mike Brown says you can make your pick between the two, but he won’t even attempt to make any trade because he’s Mike Brown. Who do you take, Joe?
Cincy Jungle: Where the Rocky Mountains are in the Pacific Ocean
I’ve thought about this… and it’s tough.
Both guys are elite talents at low value positions. I have Richardson as my #4 player and DeCastro as my #5 player on my board. I think both will be Pro Bowlers and top-5 at their position by the end of the 2013 season.
If I look at the longevity of the picks, Richardson could only be elite for what 6-8 years? DeCastro could still be making All Pro teams in 10-12 years.
Also, it’s proven that you can find starting caliber players at both Guard & RB in rounds 2-4. This draft is extremely deep with starting quality talent through those rounds at both positions.
So I come to this, who would I rather have? A top 5 RB or a top 5 OG?
Adrian Peterson, Ray Rice, Arian Foster, MJD, Chris Johnson
OR
Carl Nicks, Logan Mankins, Jahri Evans, Ben Grubbs, Marshall Yanda
Give me the top-5 RB. They can still take over the game, and i’ll find a starting Guard in round 2. Look at Peterson, his OL is trash, maybe the worst in the NFL. Defenses still have nightmares on how to stop him. Richardson ranks only behind AP and McFadden as RBs who’ve come out in last 6-8 years.
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Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 19, 2012 4:59 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
That’s not guaranteed. Somebody would be eyeing a trade up from 12-21 if Richardson makes it that far. Plus, Chargers don’t love Ryan Matthews and could be losing Tolbert in FA. Bears could also be without Forte. probably not, but we’re talking about a highly unlikely scenario here anyway.
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 19, 2012 6:47 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
If we get either one at 21
I’ll be pretty stoked. I’m swaying more to Decastro, but you have said the second round is the sweet spot for OG’s. So I would be happy either way. Would be nice to get Richardson there though so we could focus on a high end defensive player at 21.
Any chance Decastro falls to 21?
by TCfromDubVee on Jan 23, 2012 7:37 AM EST up reply actions
agree but that won't be necessary i think
i think they’ll sign carl nix to upgrade our o-line big time so if that happens richardson is a no brainer. but i love Decastro if we can get him if we dont sign nix
by thegrassisGREENer18 on Jan 18, 2012 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
I have a feeling you’re going to be disappointed
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 19, 2012 6:48 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Boo! Hiss!
I want us to sign Nicks. Or that Mathis guy… seems like he did pretty well this season (grrr).
by Boomer Lion on Jan 19, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
in my perfect draft for the bengals
decastro and richardson fall to 17, we take decastro. richardson continues to fall and we take him at 21.
no way it happens, nice dream though.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
Here's a perfect world to nab Richardson and Decastro if they are there
I could see it now. Commish at the podium to announce the pick. With the 17th pick of the 2012 NFL Draft, The Cincinnati Bengals select RB Trent Richardson, Alabama. Would be estatic and would definitely be an upgrade to Benson and Scott.
Now here’s the twist. A trade has been anounced. The Cincinnati Bengals trade their 21st pick (2012), 2nd round pick (2013), and 5th round pick (159th overall) (2012) to The San Diego Chargers for the 18th overall draft pick in The NFL 2012 Draft. The Commish is their yet again to announce that with the 18th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft, The Cincinnati Bengals select OG David DeCastro, Stanford. That’s the ultimate dream for this year.
14+18=6
That would be awesome, but again, the Chargers would have to agree as well.
Unfortunately, all of this talk is probably moot anyways; I’d say there’s less than a 1% chance DeCastro and Richardson are both there. We’d be extremely lucky to have either one fall to 17.
Cincy Jungle: Where the Rocky Mountains are in the Pacific Ocean
I don't think it would take that much
To go from #21 to #18. Maybe trade #21 and a 3rd pick. I wouldn’t trade any of our picks. Not one player is a sure thing that’s why it’s good to have as many picks as possible (NE for example). If we can land Richardson or DeCastro there will be another G or RB in the second that will do just fine.
by Bigcatdaddy on Jan 23, 2012 12:55 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Any other year I agree to pass
on a RB in the 1st but we have a luxury of two 1st rounders. So I say go get him.
Get him if available..
Doubt he will be though….
I represent the Bengals of Cincinnati with extreme passion and prejudice and make no apologies for it!
I say defense wins championships thats why im going with ss. mark barron and cb. alfonso dennard call me crazy but we been drafting offense first round for the past 4 years now and I really want chris crocker gone lol.
by bengals&buckeyenation on Jan 19, 2012 1:42 AM EST via mobile reply actions
would not be upset with those 2 guys taken in the 1st either
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
We already have 2 very high draft picks at safety
Reggie Nelson was a 1st round pick
Taylor Mays was a 2nd round pick
Do we really need another safety who is a high pick?
Yes, i know, i know….neither Nelson or Mays are elite 1st round type safeties (like Ed Reed)….but as i recall, both graded higher than Barron is expected to grade at.
the difference is these
guys were picked by teams who decided they were busts.
Attention Mike Brown: One-and-done doesn’t cut it. You will see more empty seats next year if you don’t show the fans you’re trying to win the Super Bowl!
by occams_tiger_teeth on Jan 21, 2012 1:29 AM EST up reply actions
But his point is that
there is always that “bust” potential. Not like picking Barron is a guarantee. Personally I hope we stay away from Barron. The only reason he is projected in the first round is because lots of teams need safeties and there aren’t any available. Barron is really a 2nd round talent, but because there is such dropoff after him he climbs up boards. It would just be a shame to reach for a safety this year since its such a bad draft class for safeties. I’d rather see what Mays or Sands can do or maybe move Clements or Hall to safety and pick up a CB if the other guys can’t do it.
We've been talking about Hall to S for a while,
but we might be forced into it now. He may never be the same after his achilles injury, movement-wise, but he won’t lose his intensity, passion for the game, straight-line speed, instincts or tackling skills. I can definitely see this now.
I'm throwin' rocks tonight! Mark it, Dude.
by Pardon_My_French on Jan 23, 2012 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
i've brought it up before
in the same breath as possibly (huge risk) of moving Hall there (if he doesn’t come back as the same player he was) or moving Pacman there…pacman is undersized, but everything else checks out, speed, instincts, ball skills, not afraid to play the run or try and lay a big hit…..
Honestly i wouldn’t be comfortable w/either of those, but moving Hall there would make sense if he’s CLEARLY not the same talent (physically) as he was before the injury.
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
Jones is a liabilty in the run game.
Even more so after his neck injury. His tackling form is decent and getting better, but he does not lay the big hit, nor should he at his size. Nickel corner and returner, if he comes back at all. I’m fairly confident in this.
so we have 2 busts at safety, so we're good there...?
Your argument for not drafting a safety is that we picked up two former busts? So I guess we could just sign Charles Rogers to be our #2 receiver and Mike Williams to shore up the offensive line.
How does having draft busts on the team indicate we no longer need to draft that position?
As for Mays being the answer.. only if the question is “who should we admit was a mistake and cut?”
by indesignkat on Jan 22, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
i'd argue that Reggie is not a bust
atleast not for us…for the jags, maybe yes. and the jury is still out on Mays.
Rogers from SF was considered a bust as well, then went to SF and this year played like an all-pro. sometimes it’s just a matter of a player being the right fit in the right scheme…
not to say i think we’re set at safety, i definately don’t think we are…point was that i just dont think it’s fair to call Mays a bust yet, and definately not call Nelson a bust (atleast not in his Bengals tenure)
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
they're both busts
they were first and second round picks that were so bad they were let go for nothing. That’s a bust. The fact that Nelson is a pretty decent safety now doesn’t change what he was to the Jags.
Mays, on the other hand, was known at the time to not have the hip swivel to play DB in the NFL. That’s why his own college coach didn’t draft him and had no interest in him even when he was available for a song from the 49ers. Straight line speed without the ability to change direction is worth nothing in the NFL.
by indesignkat on Jan 25, 2012 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
Hey coach..
Where do you want us to put JaMarcus Russell?
The amount of liquor I drank last night would've killed a small-to-medium sized Asian family.
I can't see Barron going in the first.
Safeties have really been dipping recently.
"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus
Agreed
The other thing about Barron is he was a Safety on a solid ‘Bama team. The linebackers on that team brought the rush every time and pressured QBs into making bad decisions which left Barron there for clean up. I’m sure he’s still a solid Safety by himself, but a 1st round pick? I don’t know.
Defense wins championships?
Tell that to New England, Green Bay, the Saints, and all the other offense-first teams that have won big in recent years.
Go look at those defenses. You’ll find something in common
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 19, 2012 12:40 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
mediocrity?
I tried to argue the point that defenses win championships a few weeks ago and realized I couldn’t do it. Offense wins championships now. The only teams with really strong defenses that have won the super bowl in the last 15 years are the Buccaneers, Ravens, and Steelers. The rest all won with big offenses and very pedestrian defenses.
Look at the final four this year, though.
It’s the “year of the passer”, and three of the four remaining teams have great defenses. Two of them are defense first team (the Niners and Ravens, that is; I’d still say the Giants are offense-first because of the way they throw the ball. Even the Patriots are very good at forcing timely turnovers; their defense is bad, but they complement the offense well by getting them good field position.
And this is for sure; if you don’t have someone like Brady, Brees or Manning as a QB you need a great defense to win it all.
Cincy Jungle: Where the Rocky Mountains are in the Pacific Ocean
I'm not quite sure your argument holds up for two key games last weekend.
Niners (great defense) beat the Saints (great offense)
Giants (great defense) beat the Packers (great offense)
What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.
I didn't say anything about playoff games
I said championships. If the Ravens or 49ers win this year, that’ll make 4 times in 16 or so years that a primarily defensive team won.
>Giants
>Great defense
uh
"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus
Best pass rush in NFL
What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.
by jimbasa on Jan 21, 2012 8:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
doesn't change the fact that their linebackers and secondary suck.
"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus
Did you see the game yesterday?
I don’t think they suck, their going to the super bowl.
What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.
read somewhere yesterday that the giants have had 18 guys go down to injury this eyar
that’s pretty impressive considering they are in the super bowl
The Curse of Bo Jackson: Jan 13th,1991- present day
Nah, was busy with other shit.
Regardless I wouldn’t count much in a wet game at the Stick with Alex Smith at QB. He may have played good this year but he’s by no means a world-beater like half of his conference.
"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus
Regardless if Richardson is there.
What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.
i really feel like Richardson is just a bigger Ray Rice
As much as it would be to have an immediate up grade at OG, Decastro cant block and then go take the hand off himself. We need help at RB immediately whether we get it from the FA or draft. But if Richardson some how falls, we pick him without a doubt. Also, it think we would have better luck drafting richardson in the 1st then a guard in the 3rd or 4th round. Opposed to picking up a DeCastro first and trying for a RB later in the draft.
Plus, no way Decastro gets passed the Cowboys and I can see the steelers trading up to get him as well. Both teams need a lot of help when it comes to linemen.
AMAS
in my ideal draft scenario
Trent Richardson & Lamar Miller are gone – so the Bengals aren’t tempted to do anything silly
David DeCastro is still there at pick 1a, and is drafted
Either one of the o-linemen like Konz / Glenn, or one of the DB’s like Dennard / Barron, etc… is still there…..and we draft one of them with pick 1b.
In round 2 they take the best available (d-line or WR or DB or whatever)
Then in round 3 we pick a RB like LaMichael James (a faster version of LeSean McCoy) to rotate w/B Scott & B Leonard.
Then in 2012, we run an offense ala Packers/Saints/Patriots with multiple guys running the ball behind a stout O-Line with guys like Whit, Smith & DeCastro paving the way.
LaMichael James weights 185 lbs...
LeSean McCoy weighs 208 lbs… You can’t really compare the two of them. LeSean McCoy has the size that he can be a 3 down back, James does NOT have that going for him. At 185 he isn’t going to be able to block blitzing linebackers either. McCoy compares more to Miller than to James. They are similar in size and speed and agility is comparable. Miller is actually 10 lbs heavier than McCoy. Don’t try to tell yourself that LaMichael James will be LeSean McCoy, though. He is just WAY to small.
The top offenses in the NFL don’t have a "feature back", so I don’t see the need for a "feature back".
GB: Grant, Starks, Khun & Saine all saw split carries
NO: Sproles, Ingram, Ivory, Thomas all got split touches
NE: BJGE, Vereen, Ridley, Woodhead all split time at RB
DET: another example of many RB’s splitting the duties
SD: Mathews & Tolbert hold a 50/50 split
CAR: 3-headed running attack with Newton, Williams and Stewart
ATL: you have to drop to the 7th best offense to find one with a true "feature back"
If I could choose between:
A fast, elusive RB who can run inside & outside, and catch the ball….but may only be able to do it for 10~20 touches a game IN ROUND 3 (L James)
Or
A similar guy who may be able to do so but for 20+ times a game IN ROUND 1 (L Miller)
I’ll take a few of the round 3 type guys over the 1 round 1 guy at RB. With LaMichael James + B Scott + B Leonard, you get a lot of total touches, and you get to get to utilize the strengths of each, and are better covered in case of an injury as opposed to relying on 1 cowbell of a back.
LaMichael James CANT run between the tackles.
He can ONLY do the outside runs and open field stuff. And he won’t be able to block NFL linebackers. Plus he has major durability concerns. I personally just don’t think James is a good fit for us. We need to have a bigger type back who can pick up that 3rd and 1. We need to have a guy that can at least sometimes run between the tackles. With James in our options are very limited on offense. Miller can run inside, outside, block, recieve, James can only do 2 of those. Just my two cents.
i'm using James as an example of the many guys similar to him in this year's draft
On a side note, i have seen him run between the tackles successfully this year, and has has an ability to reach the end zone. But we may be thinking of a different LaMichael James? I’m referring to the one from Oregon.
IMO LaMichael running behind guys like DeCastro & Konz & and Cordy > L Miller running behind guys like McGlynn & Livings.
PAC-10 lines are not NFL-caliber lines.
"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus
as in, he's not facing d-lines that can completely plug a hole like the Steelers or Ravens.
We need a guy who can make yards after contact against NFL-quality linemen. Can LaMichael James do that?
"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus
The defenses he's running against don't even compare to what he will be running against in the NFL.
In the NFL he won’t be able to run inside. Even the good college defenses he faced he didn’t do well against. Plus who says if we take Miller we aren’t allowed to upgrade the line? Take Konz at 21, or Osemele Or Zeitler in the 2nd round. They are still going to be day 1 starters, maybe not as guaranteed as DeCastro, but there isn’t that much of a dropoff between the guards we could take with our 1st pick and who we could take in round 2. Plus I’m betting DeCastro won’t be there when we pick. Who knows though.
The difference between top offenses and us is this guy:
He wants a feature back. Marvin’s all about pounding it and controlling the ball. Citing examples of what other teams are doing isn’t going to work, because that’s not Marvin’s MO and that’s not what works in our division.
"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus
aw, don't tell me my image bork'd
"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus
This, IMO, is part of our problem. Marvin wants to pound it with a WCO OC.
These two philosophies cannot coexist. ML wants to run a more conventional O while his OC wants to run a WCO. In a WCO the pass sets up the run while a run oriented O who depends on a feature back pounding it 50% ofthe time is really the opposite of what a WCO is. If these guys don’t get on the same page we will always be half one and half the other and that is a recipe for exactly the kind of half assed O we have been looking at for years. I don’t care if we go traditional or WCO but the HC and OC need to have the same vision so the team can be set up to do one or the other well.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
I don't really agree.
Marvin clearly wanted to go more towards a running back by committe type deal this year by splitting carries between Benson and Scott. It’s dumb to just alternate them for an entire series imo, but he WAS splitting carries. Probably the reason it didn’t happen more was because Benson was already throwing a fit having to split carries. I think they are more on the same page than you think. We really just need a good WCO type back who can catch out of the backfeild and is a threat to score on every play that he touches it! But we ALSO need a guy who can run between the tackles. Richardson, Miller, David Wilson, Polk all kinda fit that need. LaMichael James doesn’t unfortunately.
I think that was his point. Bensons not that guy. He can't catch a cold With grudens comin in
And stating a WCO. Benson just didn’t fit that mold. With this upcoming draft I think marvins gonna let gruden have his WCO weapons
by njbengalstat on Jan 19, 2012 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
Right obviously the only reason Benson was here this year
Is to have a little continuity from the season before. Can’t just throw a Rook QB, reciever in there without having an “established” running back… sadly that’s at least what they were thinking when they brought Ced back…
Scott isn't the guy either IMO. He is fast but not really fast.
He can catch reasonably well but can’t get the tough yardage when he isn’t in space. He isn’t, for example Dexter McCluster who is very fast as well as probably being the strongest player in the league pound for pound. The guy weight around 180 but benched 225 lbs 21 times in the combine. Half of the linemen there couldn’t pump 225 more than that.
Leonard, on the other hand is a very good WCO back as though he doesn’t have blazing speed he catches extremely well, gets every yard he can and doesn’t give up the rock. Hell add 20 lbs. and he would be a fabulous TE, or slot receiver IMO.
The other part of my point is that theWCO is a predominatly passing Offense, 75-80 pass to 20-25 run. We did not run a real WCO last year. You can have a balanced attack or a WCO. They are mutually exclusive. The pass sets up the run in a WCO. That is my real point.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
That's not really true
Not even the Eagles with McNabb had a 80% to 20% pass to run ratio. It was more like 65-35 and it was considered way too pass happy. A good balance in a WCO is 60-40.
I think Gruden wants to pound it as well.
Just that the decision seems to rest solely in Marvin’s hands—that’s probably why he hired Gruden. Just saying, we need a back that can actually carry it. What screwed us over this year wasn’t so much the passing game as it was the run game just being completely half-assed.
"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus
IMO there is no way we take a back like James
and expect him to be our #1 running back… And we don’t have a guy that CAN be that #1 back, so I’m personally glad you aren’t running the show :-P
Everyone says RBs that do well can be found in later rounds and all that, but teams don’t take a gamble on a 6th or 7th rounder or UDFA and expect that back to be their starter… the teams that find those guys already have their #1 RB in place as a guarantee, and the late round guy is just a bonus they happened to find. We NEED a guy that can start for sure next year.
i don't think we need a #1 back
We need several good backs who can be taken round 3 thru UFA, and run behind a stout O-line.
For example, see: NO, NE, GB, DET, etc… who DON’T have a #1 back….
Even if we don't have a 3 down back
we still would need a bigger guy who can run inside the tackles. Scott has shown he can’t really do that, we haven’t seen Peerman enough, and Leonard is 3rd down back or can’t stay healthy. Adding LaMichael James to that mix, who do we put in for our 3rd and 1? James can’t, Scott can’t, Leonard doesn’t get to the line fast enough, Peerman who knows? I just don’t think he fits our needs right now. If we had a bigger back on the roster that was a sure thing for us I’d say we can take the gamble on him, but even then I really wouldn’t like the pick. He’s just too small for the NFL and durability is a major concern even if he isn’t getting that many touches. Plus if you got a guy who CAN’T contribute that much because of his size he may not be worth the pick.
to your point eph
If Andy Dalton starts breaking passing records to the tune of Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Stafford (all of your examples), then I agree 100%, we don’t need a back.
Until then, draft a RB round 1.
We aren’t the Saints, Pats, Pack, or Lions, and we won’t be for a long time. Don’t kid yourself.
You are kinda looking at this wrong, though.
You are saying all these teams have great running games… Only NO really does. NO is 6th, Pats 20th, GB 27th, Det 29th. We don’t WANT to model our running game after those teams!!! They have good OFFENSES because of their passing game.
Best running games in yards per attempt are Minnesota and Philly. Peterson and McCoy. (Carolina is up there too because it’s inflated by Cam Newton running). NO is up there with them, but saying our offense is gonna be like the Saints… you get my point.
Since when do having premier offensive lines win championships?
Green Bay’s line is mediocre, and has been for years. The Steelers have won multiple superbowls with sub-par lines. All the while one of the best lines in the league is Cleveland… yea… Cleveland. All this is to say that having a top two or three offensive line in the league would be great, but lets not overvalue the position
I predict Doug Martin will have a better pro career than Trent Richardson.
Signed. Jimbasa.
What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.
i predict if we don't get richardson if he falls to us
he will be our next steven jackson. An all pro RB that we could of had to put the offense over the edge.
AMAS
I do like Doug Martin a lot too.
if we can pick him up in the 3rd or maybe even 4th round (probably won’t fall that far) I would be all for it. Plus that would give us room to take care of other positions first. As far as having a better pro career than Richardson, that is dependant on what team drafts each player and how they are used. I for one hope we take the “Muscle Hamster” and he does have a better career than Richardson, like you said.
"When you see it open up and all you can see is the end zone, it’s hard to describe how relieving it feels." -Ced Benson
by ItsAlwaysSunnyInDayton on Jan 19, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
I’m thinking Martin is a 2nd rounder. Maye early 3rd.
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 19, 2012 12:41 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Yeah, unfortunately
I’ve seen him ranked as a 2nd-3rd rounder just about everywhere. I’m just hoping he falls to us in the 3rd, because if we don’t get a G in the 1st we will have to in the 2nd which will be a good spot to do so any ways.
"When you see it open up and all you can see is the end zone, it’s hard to describe how relieving it feels." -Ced Benson
by ItsAlwaysSunnyInDayton on Jan 19, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
There's a special brand of insanity that this blog missed most of the season.
I’m undecided upon whether or not I missed it.
"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus
No doubt in my mind we take richardson if he falls to 17th
a top 5 talent droping over 10 spots… yea we take him and not have to think about. Ray Rice 2.0 = Trent Richardson. Look at the way they are built and how similar they run like each other.
AMAS
I see him as a quicker Steven Jackson
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 19, 2012 10:38 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
or frank gore with more flash.
by JCompton41 on Jan 19, 2012 10:40 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Thicker lower half then Gore
gives him more Balance and Power.
There really is no comparison for those truly special backs
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 19, 2012 10:50 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
exactly, the only person I think Trent can be compared is Rice by stature
but even then Trent has bigger size with the same speed. So next year, Richardson will not be compared to anyone but him self. I bet.
AMAS
exactly what I was thinking...
And this season when the Rams were on primetime… twice… (why were they on primetime?), I was just wishing that the Bengals had Steven Jackson. If a Steven Jackson/Adrian Peterson/Darren McFadden type (as in Trent Richardson) falls to us at 17, yes, we absolutely take him… especially when he is rated as a top 5 talent.
he is not as tall as Jackson and quicker
i think the league evolves every 8 or so years.
For instance, bigger backs were popular a few years back and everyone wanted that ever down bell cow. So as a result, offensive linemen were drafted bigger to get a better push. And now the DT and DEs are bigger as well to compete with bigger OL. So i think the trend is going back to a smaller back or backs because their is an advantage of having a strong, quick, smaller back. They get lost in the linemen so its harder find them if your a linebacker or safety. So i think the NFL teams will gravitate more towards smaller backs. And RBs by comittee because it keeps backs more fresh throughout the year. IMO
AMAS
I'm from S.Fla and have seen Lamar Miller play "live"
I’m from S.Fla and have seen Lamar Miller play “live”
and I’ve been saying since the beginning, that this is the guy who we should target.
His speed is a given. It’s his "Vision" though, that’s awesome.
Look at his film and you’ll see a guy who’s always "moving forward"
always looking and stepping into creases, cracks and crevices that
"advance the ball "forward".
It’s easy to say that a RB"S job is supposed to be exactly that, but a lot of them
see the the CC&C (might patent that) but don’t have the speed to get through it.
Lamar Miller does.
I’d Love to see us get rid of Benson & Scott and bring in……………
…………Michael Bush / Lamar Miller / Brian Leonard / Cedric Peerman
Now that’s a versatile backfield for Jay Gruden’s Scheme. Think about it.?.!
"What we do in this life echoes in eternity"
Maximus*
I like it, but
only if Richardson doesn’t fall to the Bengals. Part of me hopes he doesn’t so we don’t have to even think about it. But Richardson is a beast and if we were to pass up on him I can’t imagine we wouldn’t all be regretting it.
Agreed! Only if Richardson isn't there.
"What we do in this life echoes in eternity"
Maximus*
by gratefulmax on Jan 19, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Just a thought about FA RBs
Bears most likely keep Forte, but they also have Kahlil Bell who is a FA this year. They also have Armondo Allen and Marion Barber, so they may not be looking to resign Bell…
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 19, 2012 11:33 AM EST reply actions
I kind of agree but if we can grab Lamar Miller and sign Hillis..............
we would have our dual threat backfield and still have our 1st – 1st round pick for DeCastro or Jenkins or someone other top talent in another position of need. If we have Miller, Hillis and DeCastro our running game can become excellent over night. The passing game will automatically improve. The other 3 picks in the next two rounds can go to D in the CB or S position. Scott, Pressley and Peerman will not be needed and but Scott or Peerman can be a backup and Leonard would fit in nicely in the short passing and 3rd down plays.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
I havn't heard that AMA but you usually have your facts straight
I would think that Hillis would love to stick it to the Browns twice a year in revenge for not giving him a big contract, which wil probably be smaller than it would have been after his injury situation and the circus that his agent put him through. BTW I have done some reading about this and his agent appears to have been the one who decided that they needed to leverage the Browns for the big contract. We have a lot of what Hillis would be looking for, a team on the verge of better things and a need in his position as well as cap room. If we can’t sign him so be it but it , IMO, would be a great fit here.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
it was on the rumor wire on ESPN insider. But that was like a week or so ago.
But it makes sense for detriot to pick up a back like Hillis who would compliment to their speedy RB they have now (brain fart, cant think of his name).
And Yea, I wouldn’t mind signing hillis either! He would be perfect to goal line situations and short yardage plays. ANd he is decent at catching out of the back field. But he would have to be okay with a RB by committed and take a pay cut. Something tells me he wants the money, sorta like Benson.
AMAS
I don't think he will get the money in Detroit that he can get here.
They are suffering from years of mismanagement by Matt Millin. They were the only team, I think, to lose money in 2009 and I really don’t think they have a lot of cap room, expecially with the Suh signing. He won’t get the money he wants, IMO, any way as this lasy year did bad things to his stock. I am not saying it is likely we will get him but I do think we have a better chance than Detroit if we really want him.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
But they already have someone like that in Mikel Leshoure
I get the feeling that Detroit would probably use him as a third best/reserve guy at best.
"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus
I don't want Hillis.
He screams Benson 2.0 to me, except we’re getting him after his one good year.
"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus
by Doc Scratch on Jan 20, 2012 6:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No.
Attention Mike Brown: One-and-done doesn’t cut it. You will see more empty seats next year if you don’t show the fans you’re trying to win the Super Bowl!
by occams_tiger_teeth on Jan 21, 2012 1:29 AM EST reply actions
Richardson/Pead Backfield?
What about picking up Richardson if he is there and Pead in a later round. Obviously with a screen name like mine there is some bias, but Pead is special. That kid has incredible vision and is deceptively fast. You rotate those two guys with Richardson getting 2/3 of the carries.
How about a Pead highlight video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgLgTrAXvUg
by Bearcat_Fan on Jan 23, 2012 9:06 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I agree,we must fix that line with the first pick.I think he might slip to the 17th spot,LT or RT seem to get get drafted before guards. You got to figure two QB’s are going in the first five picks ,then CB-RT-LT-LB will BE HIGH PRIORITY !! I believe Mr DeCastro will be available at 17.
Kenneth Michael Powers
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