Asking The Question About Bengals Defensive End Robert Geathers
During the early days of the new year in 2007, the Cincinnati Bengals justly rewarded defensive end Robert Geathers with a six-year deal worth $33.75 million and $12.7 million guaranteed. The former fourth round draft pick from the 2004 NFL draft registered 10.5 quarterback sacks, speculating a resolve that the team finally capitalized on a pure pass rusher this team sorely lacked. Though briefly converted as an outside linebacker the following season (due to accumulating injuries at the position), little did we know at the time that Geathers would require another 58 games from 2007 through 2010 just to equal the same mark that he set in 2007.
For a time Geathers was the aim of fans' voracious frustration. Much of that frustration was in conjunction to a free agent signing two years later with Antwan Odom (five-year deal worth $29.5 million and $11.5 million guaranteed signed in 2008), effectively drawing both defensive ends into a parallel argument due to their poor production compared to the investment the team put into both pass rushers.
Odom was eventually released due to a wide-ranging of concerns, ranging from durability issues (only played 26 of 48 games) to a four-game suspension for violating the league's performance substance policy. Let's not get into what happened after he left Cincinnati.
Not only did Geathers remain with the Bengals, he would go on to start 13 games, generating 39 tackles and 2.5 quarterback sacks in 2011. Against the Pittsburgh Steelers on Nov. 13, Geathers registered six tackles, 1.5 quarterback sacks, a tackle-for-loss and a quarterback pressure. He followed that up with a six-tackle performance (including one for loss) against the Baltimore Ravens, then registering another seven tackles and a four-yard sack on Cleveland's Colt McCoy the following week.
On the other hand, according to Pro Football Focus, Geathers' -7.4 score ranked worst on Cincinnati's defense, offering no positive grade either against the run or pass. It's the second time in as many seasons that Geathers graded as Cincinnati's worst defensive player and if you combine his score over the past three seasons, it accumulates to a -35.5.
Entering the final year under contract, Geathers is due $4.2 million in base salary in 2012.
Do the Bengals keep him or will he be released before the 2012 regular season?
The benefits of keeping him is that it relies on depth and there's little reason to believe that the Bengals will release him until otherwise certain that he'll be replaced -- think insurance. Carlos Dunlap suffered a hamstring injury midway through the season (missing four games) and wasn't necessarily the demon he was in the first half of the season or the second half last year. Though largely strong as steel, Fanene did miss 14 games in 2010 and Frostee Rucker failed to play more than 12 games during any of his first five seasons with the Bengals before playing a full 16-game schedule in 2011.
Which brings us to another point. Though we don't expect the team to have any salary cap problems -- other than being listed on top-five lists for having the most cap space -- Frostee Rucker and Jonathan Fanene will enter free agency this year. If the issue becomes one of money, then the team could easily free that up by keeping two of their more productive linemen and releasing Geathers. The only other option is to renegotiate a reasonable extension where he's not one of the highest paid players on the team, but still offering limited depth in case of injury. After all he was part of the eight-man rotation that constituted one of the best defensive lines Cincinnati has seen for some time.
It wouldn't surprise us if the team went in either direction.
Does Geathers offer anything substantial that warrants a $4.2 million salary? The well-balanced reaction would easily suggest no. Nor would it surprise us if the team keeps Geathers for one more season to finish out his existing deal.
Though not a critical question this offseason, it will be one that has to be asked.
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he costs too much for depth.
take a pay cut or take a hike
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
+1
he has been somewhat productive over his time here..good run stopper…but we know his ceiling…time to move on
"In a battle between patience and power, patience always wins"
by ticalcaldwell on Jan 20, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
He's gone. I would much rather see the Bengals reward guys like Frostee, MJ, Fanene and Sims. Geathers is gone!
by DiddyGotGrillz on Jan 20, 2012 10:22 AM EST reply actions
We have guys now who can step in and be starters.......
I know the strength for Geathers was always that he “plays the run” extremely well. But I think for what he makes and for how our D line performed, we’ve got plenty of guys who have both earned contract extensions and more playing time (Fanene, Sims, etc.).
"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche
by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 20, 2012 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
I agree, reward others that are far more deserving than Geathers...
Geathers, statswise, had a good seasonm, but not good enough to keep starting him over MJ…
Frostee is a solid player
Along with the rest of our youth.
by Cincinnati222 on Jan 20, 2012 10:32 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Frostee made some nice plays in the backfield..........
and ended up with 4 sacks this year. He only had 1 each of the past 3 years, so nice step forward for him considering he wasn’t a full time player.
"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche
by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 20, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
If letting him go means keeping 2 other players
Then show him the door. Froste and Fanene can give us better production at close to the same cost as Geathers. The Bengals need to see more than one good year out of a player before they hand out a big contract. They’ve been burnt several times by jumping the gun on paying one year wonders.
by Bigcatdaddy on Jan 20, 2012 10:42 AM EST via Android app reply actions
Fanene plays the run very well also, I think he's underrated because of his sack total (6.5)...
but he also rated very high in a previous post for playing the run.
"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche
by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 20, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
"I'm gonna get you!" say's Geathers........"No your not!" say's Gabbert.
"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche
by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 20, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Marvin and Zim both REALLY like Geathers
He will stay (barring anything unforeseen – like the Bengals drafting DE Quinton Coples in the first round).
Geathers is still only 28 years old. To put that in perspective, Andy Dalton is 24, and yet Geathers has been in the league 8 years. There are not too many 8 year veterans who are 28. By comparison, A.J. Green will be 30 in his 8th year, and Andy Dalton will be 31 in his 8th year.
Also, the $4.2M base salary is not an issue when the team is roughly $40M (FORTY MILLION) under the salary cap – projected to be about $120M in 2012. Geathers, while not flashy, is a proven commodity and, again, both Zimmer and Lewis, really like him! In fact, Jay Hayes had high praise for Geathers in a recent interview with Geoff Hobson on Bengals.com – and the story wasn’t even about Geathers; it was a story on Geno Atkins.
Also, with Fanene, Rucker, and Sims all UFA, I don’t see the Bengals cutting Geathers when there is a risk they may lose the 3 d-lineman listed above. And they wouldn’t need to cut Geathers in order to make cap room in order to sign Fanene, Rucker or Sims, because, again, they are roughly $40M under.
Also, a more valid comparison of the PFF grades would be how Robert Geathers compares to other DEs around the league, NOT players on his own team. This is because each team will always have one player in each position group who is graded as the “worst” on player on the team at that position group. The more accurate comparison is how does his grade compare to other DEs. By way of a non-football example, saying someone “finished last in their class at MIT” only indicates how he compares to his classmates at MIT. It does not accurately assess how he compares to other students across the country. Similarly, the Bengals d-line is probably the best position group on the team, and by the very nature of “grading”, someone will always finish last, yet this is not an accurate assessment to how he compares to other DEs around the league.
Bottom line, barring anything unforeseen, Geathers will be on this team in 2012.
by The_Black_Stripes on Jan 20, 2012 10:57 AM EST via mobile reply actions
+1
I agree with everthing you said, but you don’t meassure a players wear and tear by their age. You measure a players wear and tear by number snaps and games they have played. I would imagine Geathers has a few good more years left. But he should be considered a back up at this point. We need Dunlap to be the full time starter with breaks here and there because Dunlap is a game changer and the more snaps he can get, the better for the team!
AMAS
Agree that i would loooove to see Carlos step in and be 3 down player
Also, the Bengals have occasionally moved Geathers inside to DT on obvious passing downs (more so last year if I recall correctly), so he does offer some versatility.
Agree about the # of snaps and overall waer and tear, but NFL general managers are obsesses with age, regardless of how many snaps one has played. If they weren’t so obsessed/concerned then that would NOT be an issue for draft prospect QB Brandon Weedon – Ok. St. Almost all scouting reports on him start with (or immediately point out) the fact that he is 28 (yet he has very little football wear and tear).
by The_Black_Stripes on Jan 20, 2012 11:13 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yea age is part of the equation but not all of it. Its situational just like everything else lol.
but Geathers at DT probably wouldn’t be bad idea on like 3rd and long situations when you know the QB has to throw it. Gives us more of a chance to knock down the ball or chase after the QB. kinda like how the Giants have their DL personally. They all are cloned like Micheal Johnson. Tall and athletic players that can get after the QB.
AMAS
the problem is the team can't afford his salary
more so, its the way his salary, if he’s depth in 2012, would impact resigning the other members of the D-line. “Geathers gets 4.2 million to sit on the bench and I start? i’d like 5-7 million, etc”
you have to consider how much retaining fanene, rucker, and simms will cost. if the bengals can get all 3 back and they take deals under 4.2 million a year, where does that leave the rest of the line?
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
If Frostee's, Fanene's, or Sims' agent says "Geathers gets 4.2M to sit on the bench, I want $5M for my client" . . .
The Bengals’ response is that “Geathers is our starter”. You are assuming Geathers will sit on the bench. I would love for Carlos to get the starting job, but unless he can earn the coaches trust to be a three down player, they will stick with Geathers as the starter. Look, a team can never have enough quality d-lineman. His base salary is not a problem and does not factor into re-signing thw other UFA d-lineman (the team is still $40M under the cap). $4.2M for a dependable starter (one in which the coaches love) is actually a relative bargain for an 8-year DE.
The Bengals could extend Fanene, Frostee and Sims and reward them with $5M/year contracts (which they will NOT average) and still keep Geathers and would still be roughly $25M under the cap. Geathers’ salary has no bearing on their ability to re-sign Fanene, Frostee or Sims.
by The_Black_Stripes on Jan 20, 2012 11:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
yea i think most players in the locker room understand base salery is earned over the years, if your not drafted high of course
I think If he was going to get paid a base of 4.2 mill the would still play him a lot. Not start but he would be in a lot of plays. I think they can sign to like a 2 or 3 million base with incentives. Geathers knows he doesn’t have that many years left, so take what you can get while your playing at a some what high level.
AMAS
4.2 million in base salary
For a back up who doesn’t get many sacks?
Buh bye.
by Bengals_or_Die on Jan 20, 2012 11:11 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Then resigning simms and Nelson would be easier.
by Bengals_or_Die on Jan 20, 2012 11:13 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Then resigning simms and Nelson would be easier.
by Bengals_or_Die on Jan 20, 2012 11:13 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
He is not a back-up
He is the team’s starting LDE. His sack total and PFF grade may indicate a backup, but there is more to football than that. We’ve all said “we trust Zim” (and I certainly do), so why wouldn’t we trust him to put the best 11 players out there? Zim and Marvin really like Geathers and he is the starter. I’d love for Carlos to take over as the starter, but if he pulls his hammy again, Geathers is a dependable (not flashy) backup. Until Carlos is the starter though, Geathers remains the starting LDE.
by The_Black_Stripes on Jan 20, 2012 11:51 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'd be surprised if they cut him.
They might be desperate for experienced linesmen come July. Facing FA loses to what was a very good line, I’d want to keep a guy under contract that knows the system, especially if rookies will get snaps.
No one else will pay him 4.2
And if they do they probably play in Oakland. I say restructure him. He has earned way more than he should have on this contract anyways. He can still be part of the rotation and have a role on the team but he would need to know he is not the starter anymore. MJ, Dunlap, Fanene, and Rucker are all better suited for more snaps and they need to have them play more. I’d offer to restructure on a two year deal full of incentives that could take him near the 4.2 if he earned it.
by Jcon77 on Jan 20, 2012 11:58 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Why would he go for a restructure like that?
He’s not going to go for an extension that is a pay cut for him. If that was the offer he would ride out his existing contract and then negotiate afterwards in FA. If they decide to cut him he will look around in FA and possibly resign with the Bengals if it’s a good offer, but there is no guarantee that he doesn’t just go with another team for the same money because the Bengals clearly still wanted him but didn’t want to pay him the original contract they offered. That’s just a slap in the face. No way he signs an extension for less, imo. And I doubt they cut him with all the dline FA. Just my two cents.
yea i think that only works if the player is willing to take a pay cut.
and the only reason that the packers did that was because of the lock out. Techniqually a team could have picked him up, but no owner was going to do anything like that. So Greenbay knew there wasn’t anything to risk and that Hawk would take a pay cut to stay.
AMAS
DE is going to be a major need by 2013's draft.
Maybe the team can get ahead of that need by cutting Geather’s 4.2 million and putting it towards a more productive end NOW in Free Agency.
If you believe in the contract year effect then it would be stupid to cut or trade him this year.
Has anyone here actually looked at where the Bengals FA’s are ranked (rotoworld, PFF, walters football – doesn’t matter)? They are waaaayyyy down the list. Not too worried about multi-million $ contracts with this group.

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