Isaiah Pead - Senior Bowl MVP
by eric nyc on Jan 29, 2012 9:38 AM EST
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PrintPart one fo my 3-part prediction. Huge Senior Bowl, monster combine, 2nd round draft pick. At this point, I don't think he'll even be there at the 21st pick of the 2nd round. I know Pead has been the source of some disagreements on this board (and the word "homer" being thrown around more than it has since the Great Gilyard Wars of 2009) but can anyone really say they dont' think this guy is going to be a good to very good NFL running back? one thing that has seldom come up in the argument has been his return skills, and those were on display yesterday.
I still say that whoever Gruden wants he should get - that includes Reichardson if it means trading up in the first. Gruden earned a lot of points with the organization when he sold them on Dalton, and he earned 10 times that many when he turned down the HC offers to sign an extension here. His biggest job this offseason is going to be deciding who he wants running the ball next year and we should make sure he gets that guy no matter what. But at this point, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that turns out to be Pead. And there's no way he's lasting until the 3rd-4th round like some people have said lately.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Cincy Jungle's writers or editors.
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There's something about Pead...
There are backs out there who are bigger and arguably more talented, but this guy produces. Who cares how much talent you have if you don’t produce. I really like his style of play also. He doesn’t struggle for a few yards. He’s trying to hit paydirt every time he touches the ball.
I wasn’t really surprised at all when I read he was the MVP, but I was surprised that he more or less did it with his return game.
If I’m guilty of homerism, so be it, but it seems like this is the kind of back that would fit that WCO offense. In the end, in Gruden I trust.
"Thomas the Train" Pead
Bip-bam-thankyou-mam! I know I can, I know I can.
There is defenately something special about pead
i think he is a solid 2nd rounder and a potential late first rounder, depending on how good he does at the combine
AMAS
i like pead as a 10 touch a game back
But wouldn’t draft that in the second round without having a 20 touch back already. I wouldn’t mind a Pead, ganaway, set with Leonard as 3rd downs. But that just seems to risky to go in with, and takes another pick.
by JCompton41 on Jan 29, 2012 12:02 PM EST via mobile reply actions
This says it all.
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 29, 2012 12:08 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
agreed
pead seems more useful to a team with a running back by committee approach. a teams like the pats, packers, saints, raiders, etc would all be great homes for pead.
cincy would need to sign someone like bush in free agency, utilize leonard more for third downs, and have to end the bernard scott experiment for pead to have a place on the bengals roster. gambling on pead as cincy’s every down back for 20-30 carries a game, seems to be a short-sighted approach with fingers crossed and more likely to fail than succeed. in the right situation, pead will be solid in the nfl. now, if the bengals sign someone like benson or bush in free agency, we’ll have a hint at the draft hand cincy is holding. with pead seeming a likely candidate for orange and black.
btw – new valen halen song just came on net station, for the other old farts on the board, you excited for some van halen (not van hagar) in less than 2 weeks?
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
i think pead can easily get around 15 touches in Grudens system
maybe around 10 carries but he still should get a few screen/ out let passes, plus he can motion out of the back field and line up in the slot.
And if you include punt returns and kick off returns, he would be very close to 20 touches a game and would be worth the 2nd pick. IMO
I still think he would be able to get around 15 carries, i don’t think his size is going to be an issue in the NFL.
AMAS
youre gonna run 15 sweeps
He’s not going to be able to run up the middle effectively on a consistent basis. Him being injured doesn’t worry me a lot.
by JCompton41 on Jan 29, 2012 2:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Pead can be effective up the middle. He just isn't going to push the pile.
And Peads is the most effective out of the shot gun when taking hand offs, it allows him to chose to keep it inside or bust out on the edge. Not to mention he can motion out and run some routes.
AMAS
Bengals don't run many plays out of shotgun, so that's a reason against him.
He just is the same as a Bernard Scott type. He’s better than Scott, but we need a variety of backs on our roster. Like other RBBC teams they have different types. If we picked up Pead that would mean we resigned Benson or another bigger between the tackles type back. I think we will go for Doug Martin in the 2nd personally since he is versatile. Can run inside, outside, catch, block, and return.
lol bengals don't run many plays out of shotgun????
i believe part of the reason why they didn’t run many shotgun plays early on downs is the personell they had last year. With Benson out this year, Gruden will be able to implament his style of the WCO into more of the playbook, which I bet will be more shotgun formations. Just a hunch.
AMAS
I'm thinking it's just not really his style.
I haven’t done any research on what kind of formations he used in the past in other leagues, etc, but I wouldn’t think they would install a bunch of the playbook which had almost nothing out of shotgun if they planned on heavily using shotgun next season. Generally WCO isn’t run out of shotgun, and running out of shotgun is more of a highschool and college type of play design and is not that common in the NFL. I don’t think they are going to draft a guy in the 2nd round and retailor the entire offense to work around what he did in college. Tebow in Denver is the exception :-P
Plus we will still need a back that can block or screens won’t work that well. If he can’t block it’s harder to fool defenses into good screen plays. If he’s in and it’s a pass and he can’t block, they are gonna be clued in that it’s a screen and stick to him probably. Just my thoughts, and I DO really like Pead and am a UC fan, but I don’t think the Bengals will pull the trigger on him unless their options are very limited and other backs are gone. Just not the right fit.
im pretty sure the WCO is primarly played out of the shotgun
typically, if your third and long your going to play out of the shotgun, so every offense has shotgun plays.
My point about Pead is that he would fit the mold for a RB in a WCO. Pead will need to work on his blocking for sure, but I think he can be good enough to keep the defense honest. Pead didn’t have that many opportunities to block because the majority of the plays Pead was in at UC, he was either running a route or taking the hand/ pitch.
And Im thinking Gruden will follow the mold of Saints, Pats and Green bay as far as play calling. Let the pass set up the run. And it wouldn’t be a reach to pick a guy in the second, whether its Martin or Pead, to fill the roll we need in WCO RB.
I like Pead more because he offers more of a home run factor in the return and run game. Will also free up a spot a WR, if the bengals chose to use Pead as the returner instead of Tate.
AMAS
Returner
What if he returns 10 kicks a game (punts and kick-offs) and gets 10-15 carries/catches. That’s 20-25 touches a game with a big impact. This also allows us to jettison Tate and Scott, giving us room to keep Green, Whalen, Shipley, Hawkins, Binns and a draft pick, and still room to draft a RB like Herron or Ballard in the 4th or 5th round, or sign Bush or BenJarvus Green-Ellis to be the work horse between the tackles.
It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain
We could also get a returner from a CB or other RB that we could draft.
Or use Hawkins or Adam Jones or Doug Marting if we draft him as a return man. It’s a nice bonus, but I don’t think you draft him over a guy that fits in our system better just because he can return.
I agree
But if Richardson and Martin are unavailable to draft when we are willing to draft them, Then I see taking Pead as a possibility.
It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain
Yup I've got my fingers crossed for Martin,
but I also like Lamar Miller and Richardson too. Need to get a guy that has some size. I just think if we don’t go grab a bigger back like Bush or Green- Ellis or Tolbert in FA that we will need a guy who at least CAN run between the tackles. Polk is a guy I’m not too high on, but he would fit the bill also.
I agree about polk, he would essentially be the same thing as Benson
but he may have better hands than Benson.
Not really, impressed by Miller when it comes to cutting and so forth, but he has elite top end speed. So if he gets any type of hole up the middle, he could take it to the house.
Best cause scenerio is Richardson to fall, because he would be more of a sure thing when it comes to this RB class. But I will be happy with Pead, Martin, or Miller. Even Lamicheal James wouldn’t be a bad pick later in the draft.
AMAS
Problem I have with James is the same I have with Pead.
Not big enough to run between the tackles. If we draft one of those guys we also have to draft a bigger back or pick one up in free agency. Grabbing one of those guys would also mean we are giving up on Bernard Scott. I’m not in love with Scott, but I think he would work better as a situational role with another back rather than in for a series and then sit two.
i was thinking pead in the 2nd
and possibly that back from Baylor. He is like the size of Brandon jacobs, maybe a little shorty but around the same weight
AMAS
I believe the guy's name from Baylor is Terrence Ganaway, 5'11" 240 lbs.
Paul Brown Stadium, where everyone's hopes go to die.
Don't know who you're talking about haha
Plus I wouldn’t want to count on a guy that is gonna be 6th 7th UDFA to be our short yardage/between the tackles guy.
Ahh Ganaway
Shouldve checked back before I posted. Silly new baby requiring attention that makes me look silly on Bengals forums!
LaGarette Blount, a similar type of runningback was a UDFA
Paul Brown Stadium, where everyone's hopes go to die.
Right you can find good backs that are udfa,
but you don’t want to HAVE to depend on them being successful in their rookie season as udfa.
Wikipedia on WCO
“Another key element in Walsh’s attack was the three step dropback instead of traditional seven step drops or hotgun formations.”
The offenses you list don’t use shotgun a lot either.
i believe your right the more i look into the terminology
its the third WR that makes it more of a WCO instead of the 3 WR set out of shot gun.
But I still think they will run more shot gun next year, it gives them more options on offense, and im sure they became more of a pass first offense towards the end of this season. I just remember the bengals running more shot gun plays towards the end of ths season.
AMAS
I personally don't think they will run much shotgun.
They didn’t at all this year, and it’s not really typical of the system that Gruden is implementing. But I am not Gruden so who really knows? Just my opinion.
I think Bernard Scott is better.
What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.
lol i dont think scott is any worse than Benson as far as production, and I think Scott may produce more if he was the full time start
BUT Pead makes people miss consistently and has more of a home run ability at run and return game. IMO
AMAS
Observationalism
What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.
by jimbasa on Jan 30, 2012 7:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Seriously, though
I know we maybe haven’t given Bernard Scott quite as many touches as some would have liked since he got here, but he’s never looked all that impressive when he has gotten his touches. I’m not entirely sure he’d even make an active roster on at least half the teams in the league. Pead looks like a legitimate 2nd round draft pick and projects to be at the very least an above average change of pace back. His ceiling is considerably higher than that. I think we’ve already seen Scott’s ceiling. So I’m not sure what would make anyone say Scott is better.
Also consider Chris Rainey in the later rounds to be a kick/punt returner/ leon washington gadget running back
Paul Brown Stadium, where everyone's hopes go to die.
I think it's all about the rhythm
He has almost never gotten a chance to have enough carries to find his rhythm.
What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.
by jimbasa on Jan 30, 2012 11:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He runs a 4.3 at the combine
and someone probably takes a chance in the 1st. Indy is a slow field so we’ll see.
2011 Year of the Red Rifle
Carson Palmer 2011 Comeback Player of the Year
by Throw the ball on Jan 31, 2012 11:12 AM EST reply actions
Wouldn't surprise me.
I don’t think he’ll do enough to push himself into the 1st, but I think there’s a good chance he’s gone in the first half of the 2nd. THere’a always a run on RB’s in the top fo the 2nd and there’s a lot of good ones in this draft. Once it starts they’re going to go quickly.
It's funny last night
I was looking at other boards to see what teams in front of us might be thinking to do regarding the draft. The impression I got from fan basis NOT IN CINCINNATI was that after the senior bowl Isiah Pead my have improved his stock to maybe the 3rd or 4th rounder instead of being a 4th or 5th round pick. I’ll admit, I’m ussually a hommer, but realistically I do NOT see him going before the 3rd round. I think living in Cincy and following him has maybe clouded our judgement just a bit.
lol im not too worried what people think
its the scouts that work for the teams, im worried about. I don’t think the general fan puts much thought into what makes a RB good or worth taking in a certain round. They pretty much go off what the major sport outlets say about a player and go with it.
I can tell you from what I seen and studied about pead, that he will go much early than what most people will think. I think being a Cincy player, some fans were fortunate enough to see his performance and under stand he is a diamond in the rough.
He isn’t coming from the most glorified school or conference, but he has preformed well against good competition. And that is the main reason why he hasn’t gotten much attention. Pead may not even fall to us in the second if he runs a 4.3 at the combine, its going to be close.
AMAS
Pead seems like another Bernard Scott
10-15 touches and slippery between the tackles. I haven’t looked at this much so I may be wrong, but Lamar Miller seems to be a much better fit to replace Ced.
Lamar Miller is better.
That’s why Lamar Miller will be going 20-30 picks ahead of Pead. It’s a risk/reward scenario. If Miller gives you 10-15 touches and costs you a mid first round pick while Pead can give you very similar touches with a late 2nd round pick, the value is squarely in favor of Pead. I dont’ think anyone’s advocating taking him in the first round.
i would say Miller is a liltte more "pro ready" as far as size and playing for the U of M
but ability wise, i would give the edge to Pead. Miller has ellite speed, but is not as shifty or has good of hands as Pead. In the long run, I would rather have Pead, because I have a feeling he is going to have a very productive NFL career.
AMAS
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