Is Running Back That Vital In The First Round?
by Ryan Harper on Jan 31, 2012 10:20 AM EST
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PrintIt's that time of year again. Time to sit back and watch as two teams, neither of which are the Bengals, battle it out for the Super Bowl. While the Giants and the Patriots are practicing for the big game, we can look forward to the draft. And there's even more reason to look forward to the 2012 NFL Draft if you're a Bengals fan because they managed to snag two first-round selections.
In many mock drafts there's been a variety of players selected for Cincinnati. However, the trend has been a mixture of cornerback, running back, linebacker, or offensive linemen. For example, in the latest SB Nation mock draft the Bengals use their two first round selections on a cornerback and a running back.
I do agree that those areas have voids that need to be filled. Once Leon Hall's season ended prematurely last year the Bengals lack of depth at corner was exposed and was a huge factor in their second half decline and their frustrating playoff performance against the Houston Texans. So I think that's definitely one area that should be addressed in the first round. But what about the other pick? Should the Bengals grab a running back in the first round?
Since 2006, 18 running backs have been selected in the first round. Of those 18 selections only five of them rushed for more than 1,000 yards in 2011. Reggie Bush, Marshawn Lynch, Chris Johnson, Beanie Wells, and Ryan Mathews highlight that list. For Bush, who was drafted by the New Orleans Saints with the second overall pick of the 2006 draft, it was his first season running for more than 1,000 yards. Lynch reached the 1,000 rushing yard mark for the third time in his career and it was the fourth time Johnson achieved that mark. For Mathews and Wells it was the first time in their career that either exceed 1,000 rushing yards. And then of course, there's Benson (he was drafted in 2005 so he didn't count).
Of the remaining 13 on the list, four ran for at least 700 yards. The remaining nine failed to reach 700 rushing yards. Adrian Peterson, who failed to surpass the 1,000 yard mark for the first time in his career, has rushed for at least 1,200 yards in each of the previous four seasons. He's one of the most notable feature backs to not gain 1,000 yards in 2011, but he only played in 12 games and still came just 30 yards short of the 1,000-yard mark.
Then there's the second-round running backs. Guys like Ray Rice and Matt Forte, who were selected in the second round, have had successful seasons. Both Rice and Forte had good years in 2011, which shows that talent can be found in the running back position after the first round of the draft.
And what about the guys taken after the second round?
Since 2006, 21 running backs, who were either the feature back or involved in a rotation with their respective teams, have been selected in the third round or later. Now to qualify for this group the minimum number of carries was 75, just so you have an idea as to how this was based. However, there was an exception made for Jamaal Charles of the Kansas City Chiefs because his season was cut short due to an ACL injury that limited him to two games. Usually he has a bigger role on offense .
From this group, two backs topped the 1,000 rushing yard mark. Arian Foster of the Houston Texans ran for 1,224 yards and ten touchdowns on 278 carries. Surprisingly he was an undrafted rookie back in 2009. The other member from this select group to dash for more than 1,000 yards was Shonn Greene of the New York Jets. The former 2009 third round selection compiled 1,054 yards and six touchdowns on 253 carries.
Eight of the backs from this group were undrafted, the most notable being Foster. LeGarrette Blount of Tampa Bay, Chris Ivory and Pierre Thomas of New Orleans, BenJarvus Green-Ellis and Danny Woodhead of the Patriots, Jackie Battle of the Chiefs, and Kahlil Bell of the Bears round out the group. All of them reached at least 330 yards on the ground. Blount had the second most impressive numbers from the undrafted class with 781 rushing yards and five touchdowns on 184 carries.
The Bengals are likely going to search for a running back to replace Cedric Benson, assuming he is indeed leaving Cincinnati and the draft is likely going to be the avenue for the Bengals to explore. But is it going to be necessary for the Bengals to reach for a running back in the first round when there will be other backs available in the later rounds? There are a lot of needs on the team, especially in the offensive line. Would drafting a running back in the first round be a good idea if that back is running behind the same offensive line that struggled to open up running lanes for Benson in 2011? Talented backs can be found in the second round and later.
There is still quite a lot of time before the draft and a lot can happen between now and then, but this will likely be the main draft debate heading into the offseason.
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So many variables.
Not the least of which is going to be the combine, which could see a couple guys slide in or out of the first round. But as of right now, there’s really only one back I’d absolutely want in the first and that’s obviously Richardson. I think the odds of him sliding to us are not great – not impossible, but not great. So at that point, I have no problem waiting until the second round. I wouldn’t be entirely disappointed if we took Miller in the first, but if we miss out on Richardson I’d be much mroe inclined to go DB or OL with both of our first round picks and then if anything trade up in the 2nd to make sure we get Martin or Pead. I would be a little upset if we stood pat and it got to the 21st pick in the 2nd round and Richardson, Miller, Martin, Pead, and Polk were ALL off the board…but that seems a bit unlikely, too. In the end, I’m going to assume Gruden is going to have his list very firmly ordered and I expect us to do what we have to do to get one of his top choices. For all we know that might not even be a name on ANY of our lists.
"Since 2006, 18 running backs have been selected in the first round. Of those 18 selections only five of them rushed for more than 1,000 yards in 2011."
nicely put.
says a ton about the situation and what it means to take a running back in the 1st round. while i know we have some in love with the bengals past 2 drafts, i still pinch myself and remember the size of the bengals scouting department. i’m much rather take someone like richardson in the 1st who appears to be a monster talent. or wait until the 2nd round or later when a swing and a miss won’t set the team back as far as reaching for a running back in the 1st will.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
What position is worth a first round pick?
RB not so much anymore.
WR, OT, DE, CB, OLB rush backer are all in high demand in the first round, The Bengals could take two from that list easily. Don’t forget Kenny Irons, I’m sure Marvin hasn’t.
Then again what if FA returns two starting guards better than what we had? Bengals could easily go Trent, WR in first round. Offense would be best in AFC north assuming both had good rookie seasons.
Don't forget S.
I know we have issues at corner but those could be partially resolved if Leon Hall recovers well next year when he returns from his injury. We do need more depth at corner I agree but I would argue safety needs to be a concern as well especially as I’m still seething over Crocker’s embarrassing performance in the playoff game where he dropped an easy interception on a terrible throw that Yates should NOT have gotten away with and followed that up on the next play with a beeline blitz to the QB that should have been a sack but was turned into a complete whiff and third-down conversion for the Texans because of what has to be the worst vision I’ve ever seen on a blitz. It was like he didn’t even know where Yates was on that play. Not to mention it’s insulting to the fans to watch a safety drop an easy interception like that when J.J. Watt, a DE, managed to snatch Dalton’s pass right out of the air before it even crossed the line-of-scrimmage and take it the distance to boot. That play was a game-changer. Plus we don’t know if we’ll have Nelson back although it looks like Zim could be returning which helps our chances of bringing back Nelson but regardless we need to bring in fresh faces at S next year, whether it be in the draft or through FA because I do not want to see Crocker in stripes next year period. I’ve put up with his poor coverage skills for long enough now and the playoff game against the Texans was the last straw. I would rather have kept Roy Williams for this season personally over Crocker, at least he could hit.
Depends on BPA on position of need
The steelers have no amazing run attack, but every back they have would be more than servicable and ALL average over 4 a carry. If we have to reach for a RB and there are highly rated OL (G’s) who will upgrade this offense, we take them early on.
I havent gotten into full draft mode so im unsure if there are any G’s that high rated this year. I would guess we’re looking in the secondary or maybe even WR again.
If anything the past has shown us RB’s can be found anywhere. We took Chris Perry & Kenny Irons in the first two rounds in the MArvin era and both of those were nothing.
I'm ready to face any challenges that may be foolish enough to face me
Both Perry and Irons got hurt early. You can't really judge their talent in the NFL hurt.
The Bengals have really bad Karma with 1st round RBs. But the likelyhood of finding a very good player in the RB position in the later rounds also is more likely than in some other positions where we have needs.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
Kijana Carter anyone??
"What we do in this life echoes in eternity"
Maximus*
by gratefulmax on Jan 31, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
didnt even make it out of his 1st preseason
damn you lions!
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
If we pick up nicks And another good db and...
I could see if trent was on the board, we would. But nicks is prob staying in new oleans and mikey doesn pay top dollar for a db. If we get a rb in FA then noway we get one in 1st round
by njbengalstat on Jan 31, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Players are a product of their system
There isn’t any one draft pick that’s a sure thing. Not even Luck. Some of those backs listed maybe weren’t used correctly or had horrible lines or horrible coaching. I’m sure that there is at least one player out there on the street that would’ve been the next Sanders or Smith but never got the opportunity or to play for the right team. For success in the NFL there has to be alot more than just talent to make it work. As far as the Bengals taking a RB in the 1st, I would like them to take Richardson if he’s there but if not get the RB they think can be successful in our system in the second or even 3rd. They need to fix the line before any RB can have any success here. Look at Watson for example, not a great RB but had good success because of system and O line.
by Bigcatdaddy on Jan 31, 2012 11:02 AM EST via Android app reply actions
I am so sick of hearing people talk about Coffman...
Gruden didn’t want to use him when he got here, either. Isn’t it MUCH more likely that Coffman just isn’t an NFL caliber tight end? Every team out there knows his college resume and he’s been sitting on our practice squad for three years. If the Patriots, golden gods of the tight end position, thought he had potential they would have signed him off our squad. Same goes for 30 other teams. I am MUCH more inclined at this point to think Coffman is just not a very good player. He relied on size mismatches basically playing WR in college. Now he can’t grasp blocking or route running at a high enough level to play pro. The end. I doubt he makes the roster this year and I’d be surprised to see anyone else take a flyer on him.
lol
I almost forgot we even had this guy…Has he even played in an NFL game?
"In a battle between patience and power, patience always wins"
by ticalcaldwell on Jan 31, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
A couple. I remember him getting a couple catches towards the end of 2010
But people on this board seem to think there’s some conspiracy to keep him off the field. I could maybe understand it a bit when it was Old Man Bratkowski running the show, but when you bring in a brand new OC and a brand new QB and the guy STILL can’t get off the practice squad, and the whole league is seeing receiving TE’s light it up and break records and still don’t think he’s worth a chance, I think the football professionals may know better than us.
Agree 100%.
I think the coaches know better than we do.
*excluding alexander should be included in above statement
"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche
by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 31, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
^^^^^^^^^Great Example. ^^^^^^
"What we do in this life echoes in eternity"
Maximus*
by gratefulmax on Jan 31, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
If we begin to run an actual WCO the need for a bellcow traditional RB is not as great
but there are times when you need to be able to run the ball more often and it is a good thing to have a guys who can take it between the tackles when the situation calls for it. In a real WCO the general play mix is 75% passing to 25 % running. It also takes athletic Gs which we really don’t have right now. You don’t really need a great RB in the traditional and you probably shouldn’t short change positions that are more important in the WCO to each for an RB – but it still depends on who is available when we pick. With the 17th and 21st pick a lot of players we could really use could be gone and if that is the case the big time RB might be the pick. It is all situational.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
need a hands back mostly for good wco
now, if lewis and gruden would only use leonard for that..
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
Some say Leonard and, to a greater degree Scott can't handle a lot of snaps but
in a WCO you don’t run the ball for a lot of snaps. A better Oline with more athletic Gs would help a lot.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
WCO
In some situations it’s called a WCO just because of the terminology used to call plays. Other times it’s just short to intermediate passing routes to open up the run and deep passes. No one runs a true WCO anymore it’s all just bits and pieces of it.
by Bigcatdaddy on Jan 31, 2012 11:54 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Yea, Big, I get you, but...we don't throw short passes to set up the run and long passes
That is what other teams do to us and if we are talking players who fit a system what does terminology have to do with it? It is possible that we simly don’t know what system we are running so trying to find personell to fit it is a fools errand? Maybe we should decide what we are and find a solid direction before we try to fit players into it. It is like doing a jigsaw puzzle without knowing what the picture looks like..
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
Of course we do
How many bombs did we throw to Green after throwing short passes?
Or biggest issues were sub 4 ypc from Benson, accuracy from Dalton and inability for some receivers to get separation. If Dalton and receivers were more on time, a lot of those short passes would be thrown in a way to create YAC which was sorely lacking last year.
That and the use of Gresham in the middle.
Injuries ovbiously are always going to be a concern with any RB
And they can affect the stats as well. But if you really look at the truly dominant backs over the last several years and asked people in the game to rate the RB’s, Arian Foster would more than likley be the only one to make the list who was picked up after the 2nd round.
Maybe not this order but the list would probabally be pretty close to this
1. Adrian Peterson (Round 1, Injury)
2. Darren McFadden (Round 1, Injury)
3. Chris Johnson (Round 1, hold out)
4. Lashawn MCCoy (Round 2)
5. Ray Rice (Round 2)
6. Matt Forte (Round 2)
*Arian Foster not drafted
I agree
There are good backs available in later rounds, clearly, but you’re not getting a feature back if you wait until after the 2nd round. You can pick up a LaMichael James to get 5-6 touches a game in the 4th round, but if you want someone who can be a game changer I think it has to be early.
CB-OL
To me cornerback and offensive guard are the two biggest needs in this draft. I think we can get a good running back in the second round.
This seems like such an arbitrary way to look at it
why did you use 2006 as a cut-off? Why only look at 2011 statistics? Since AP doesn’t show up as a great back in this analysis, doesn’t it imply that your approach is flawed?
Let’s look at the top 100 career rushing leaders who are still active and see where they were drafted. I’ll include those who retired in 2010 to expand the sample size.
5. LaDainian Tomlinson – 1st round (5th overall)
15. Fred Taylor – 1st round (9th overall)
22. Thomas Jones – 1st round (7th overall)
26. Ricky Williams – 1st round (5th overall)
27. Clinton Portis – 2nd round (51st overall)
32. Steven Jackson – 1st round (24th overall) (STILL STINGS!!)
46. Frank Gore -3rd round (65th overall)
49. Willis McGahee -1st round (23rd overall)
55. Maurice Jones-Drew – 2nd round (60th overall)
60. Adrian Peterson – 1st round (7th overall)
64. Michael Turner – 5th round (154th overall)
67. Brian Westbrook – 3rd round (91st overall)
69. Larry Johnson -1st round (27th overall)
86. Cedric Benson – 1st round (4th overall)
88. Chris Johnson – 1st round (24th overall)
The conclusion I reach is that you may strike gold in any given year, and find a flash in the pan. But if you want a true franchise back, you need to draft them early.
where's chris perry's name when you need him..
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
I should have put an astericks next to Steven Jackson
:)
by EarthwormJim on Jan 31, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
i still see or hear one, anytime steven jackson is mentioned
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
wow...damn good stats
All great backs…Turner in the 5th huh….
"In a battle between patience and power, patience always wins"
by ticalcaldwell on Jan 31, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
One thing don’t nobody points out is that you DON’T need a franchise back to win SB. How many of them all-time backs have rings?
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 12:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
still doesn't change the fact we need an upgrade at the RB position.
so if the best player avaible is a stud RB and thats one of our bigger needs, its a no brainer we take the RB, where ever that maybe
AMAS
You might not need one but it sure doesn't hurt.
We dont have 5 great WR or 2 great TE’s. If you think you can’t win the big one with a run first offense your crazy. It hasn’t been done in awhile but it can happen. A good run game would help Dalton tremendously.
by Bigcatdaddy on Jan 31, 2012 12:29 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Me?
I didn’t mention anything about Benson. His ship has sailed, time for him to go IMO. I do think he might have had better success with a better line but no I don’t want him back.
by Bigcatdaddy on Jan 31, 2012 12:54 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
not you good sir
pray with the “you don’t need a franchise rb to win”
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
i don't think the Bengals are looking for a career rushing leader...just a guy to play RB for a few seasons
so the career rushing leader stat is somewhat pointless unless we’re playing by the pre-free-agency rules.
i think they are looking for an upgrade first, then if the career rushing record comes with it
i don’t think they will mind
AMAS
suspect the bengals are looking for a back that can average 4+ yards per carry..
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
Richardson seems to be an elite level talent
Scouts seem to say he is top 5 talent in the draft – and RB that is unique doesn’t come around that often. Worth the risk.
if he is available take him – otherwise – wait and go DB/OL w/first two picks
Provided Gruden feels he can work in his offense and wants him
consider the 16 teams drafting in front of us
there are a couple that could use a rb upgrade, yet they have huge wholes to fill. cleveland would benefit from richardson, but, it means they are stuck with colt as their qb for another season and have no stud wr to toss the ball out (little is hands of stone).
do the bucs really need another back when they have pressing defensive issues to address? will depend if the bucs are giving up on LeGarrette Blount.
the dolphins, need help on their offensive line before they can run. yet, richardson is a big talent and the fins could try to address their o-line issues later in the draft.
kansas city, likes to rush, needs help on defense. has two solid backs already in battle and mccluster. would be a crazy pick for the chiefs to ignore their holes.
the jets: shonn greene. they also have major issues to address in their secondary and both lines. taking richardson at 16 could get a gm fired the following season if the jets meltdown in 2012 (again).
and we’re at pick 17.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
I've seeing a lot of mocks have him going to the Cardinals
Which I don’t really get. The have Beanie Wells and drafted Ryan Williams in the 2nd round last year.
Fins have Bush and they just grabbed Thomas in the 2nd round last year
They won’t pursue a back.
Jets could I guess but I doubt they would with Greene still being serviceable and all their other issues.
Bucs might though. Never know. Blount isn’t a world beater. Bucs just need talent in almost every spot and TR could help take pressure off of Josh Freeman.
Doubt KC takes TR with Charles coming back. McCluster isn’t ever going to take over as feature back. He’s too much of a gadget player.
So yea, I think there is a chance TR falls, especially with RBs being undervalued these days.
I heard Blunts problem
Is he is literally STUPID. They says he has the talent just can’t seem to grasp the blocking schemes
Don't forget KC has Jamaal Charles coming back next year.
Paul Brown Stadium, where everyone's hopes go to die.
so 2nd is where u get ur money at
I’ll take best rb available that’s fits our system in 2nd
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 12:06 PM EST via mobile reply actions
+1 we will get the best value in the second for RB
then we can get the playmaker(s) we need on defense and/or OL help in the first.
AMAS
And you don’t need a franchise back to win SB. Who was last Hall of Fame back to win SB? Emmitt Smith?
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 12:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
This
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 12:15 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
My Fault
Forgot about both of them, legends.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 12:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
you might need a franchise back to win
but a pinto wont get you to the big show.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
by palewook on Jan 31, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Here's the problem with comparing Trent Richardson to other former 1st round RBs...
In the last 10 years, only Adrian Peterson and Darren McFadden can compare to him. All of the other are nowhere close. He’s an elite prospect and at RB, that’s a rare thing.
If you want to compare Lamar Miller, Chris Polk, Doug Martin, and David Wilson to Ryan Matthews, Beanie Wells, Knowshon Moreno and so on, that’s a fair comparison and a good debate.
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 12:14 PM EST via Android app reply actions
Disagree
FA comes first. They will have to try and sign Lynch b/c there are no guarantees and there’s an outside chance Cleveland or TB could draft Richardson and then they would be totally screwed no Lynch, no Richardson. I bet it’s about 80% the resign Lynch IMO
very true, but I can see the browns taking RG3 or Blackmon over Richardson.
Tampa witll be a toss up for RB or CB.
AMAS
seahawks have huge issues on both lines to worry about
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
Why u say that?
What rb ain’t go look that good with all American lineman? I leave down here in SEC country, Richardson is not the man. Lattimore and Crowell are considered better NFL prospects down here. Nobody in Alabama program even believes he is better than Ingram. And Richardson runs a 4.5 so u can’t put him in AP or DMF league either them guys ran a 4.3
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 12:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You know who had a better OL in college? Montee Ball
and he was considered a 2-4 round pick.
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 1:50 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I'll take Bama OL
And Ball was considered 2-4 pick.because he runs 4.6
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 2:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I’ll take the team with 2 OL going in top 60 picks and a couple future prospects. Also, Ball’s grade had little to do with speed and more about his creativity, elusiveness, and burst.
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 2:34 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
McCoy runs a 4.5 too and he's insanely productive
Rice ran 4.47.
And it’s projected TR will run in the low 4.4s. Not to mention he’s a gym rat, benching over 365 and squatting over 600. TR is a rare blent of talent and physical skills. We’d be lucky to have him.
IF Richardson is available at 17....
….he’s a no brainer pick. But I’m not going to hold my breath on him still being there.
Quality offensive linemen can still be acquired in later rounds as well. I’m of the opinion that the only way we should draft a RB in the first is if it’s Richardson. If he’s there at pick 17 or 21 and we pass on him then, there’s no way he’ll still be there in the second round. If someone snags him before our first pick, use the first round on DB and OL, and try for Doug Martin in the second round.
I would NOT trade up to take Richardson, he’s going to be a helluva talent in the NFL, I have no doubt about that, but I don’t think he’d be so important that we should trade away any picks to get him.
Nicely said
Agree with everything you said
by EarthwormJim on Jan 31, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
martin will be gone in the late first or early second, i would be shocked if he fell all the way to us.
The jets will probably take him right before we can lol
AMAS
jets (depending on LT and FA moves)
will be looking for a change of pace/hands back to compliment what they already have on their roster. could the jets grab a rb in the 2nd – 4th round, sure. in the 1st? that will get someone fired before 2013 if the jets ignore their pressing holes with a 1st round rb draft pick.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
This might be far fetched
But I can see the Jets trying to get Manning if it becomes possible.
by Bigcatdaddy on Jan 31, 2012 2:18 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
with that nerve issue
manning might never play again. or it could take years before he does.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
figure you're dead on with the jets targeting a rb in the 2nd
and being one we’re hoping to get..
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
If we dont upgrade our line
What is Richardson go be able to do that Scott can’t do? We really gotta wait until free agency play out before we see where we at. If we get a stud g in free agency, then we can take Richardson. We have studs on offense we need a stud lb and s.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 12:27 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I agree to an extent
Richardson is WAY better that Scott every day of the week and twice on Sundays. He would do better than Scott with our line as is but we do need to upgrade the line. I’m thinking if we do get lucky enough to land Richardson that the Bengals would do everything possible to get that line better and help him be successful.
by Bigcatdaddy on Jan 31, 2012 12:39 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
That a be cool
If our defense ain’t need major help. We have 3 young pro bowlers on offense. Fix up that line and everything else a fall into place. How can we really judge Richardson and he’s played with All Americans his whole career. Even Gruden said Scott should’ve touched ball more this season. Richardson has close to a 4.6 speed he is not a game changer!!!
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 12:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
This is the strangest writing style I have ever seen...
I don’t even know how to make sense a out of a it.
by eric nyc on Jan 31, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
He might have played with All Americans but he played against them to.
Richardson is a good RB. Theirs alot more than speed to a good RB. The difference in a 4.5 and a 4.3 is a blink of an eye.
by Bigcatdaddy on Jan 31, 2012 12:59 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
one remark about richardson that go my attention
a scout who wrote last year that Ingram ran angry, when pressed to describe how Richardson runs this year wrote, “Richardson runs pissed off.”
hard not to respect a back that will hit a defender.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
not in sports
Running a .2 is why they on feild and we on blog site. Measurements and potential rules in sports.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 1:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Pray what the hell are you talking about
Time has a standard measurement, doesn’t matter if it’s on or off the field. If your trying to say a player plays faster than his 40 time or has better game speed then I understand and Richardson has good game speed. A thousandth of a second is a thousandth of a second.
by Bigcatdaddy on Jan 31, 2012 1:07 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
where have u been?
Hell to scouts and gms 4.3 and 4.4 is a big difference. U will never see a 4.6 rb get drafted in 1st rd, I don’t care how good he is.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 1:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not these days
But you said Richardson runs a 4.6 and I’ll bet you he goes in the first round. Speed isn’t everything. What did Emmit Smith, Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk, or Thurman Thomas run at the combine? Speed doesn’t determine wether or not a RB can be good. I’m thinking that Ingram didn’t run a 4.3 and he still went in the first last year. Probably shouldn’t have but he did.
by Bigcatdaddy on Jan 31, 2012 1:38 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
put it like this
If Richardson ran a 4.3-.4.4 he would be a sure fire top #5 pick. why are people saying he’s gonna fall? It’s only one reason.and that’s he’s 40 time
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 2:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
More the needs of the other teams and the undervaluing of the RB in a passing league
Has nothing to do with the 40 time.
Thank you mexal
This guy pray thinks that if you can’t run a 4.4 40 you can’t be a good RB. Actually he’s all over the place, but yeah your right teams don’t value a RB in the draft like they used to. TR is top 5 talent maybe not a top 5 pick. The NFL is going toward the pass now more than ever. Which means QB,WR,CB, blockers, and pass rushers are on a teams want list more than a RB but sometimes you just can’t pass up talent regardless of position.
by Bigcatdaddy on Jan 31, 2012 3:37 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
there are some scouts that believe players can run faster on turf or grass
depending on their builds and skills
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
Our OL isn’t the worst in the league.
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 1:51 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
nope. pretty damned solid
now the coaching and selection of which players to start, that is a bit of a handicap. we have a-/b+ talent level on the o-line and someone keeps putting the b-/c+ line out there.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
Not good enough for our division
We could even look at upgrading Cook
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 2:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And the Steelers are?
Good luck trying to upgrade Cook. You wont find one this year. Maybe a guy like Konz in 2 years.
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 2:37 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
There is no reason not to look for upgrades a almost any position. Upgrade Cook?
Okay I can see that but I think Cook is very good and there are so many areas on this team where upgrades are needed Cook is way, way down the list IMO. I would put Cook down as one of the top 10 players on the team. I say lets be looking a making our 3-5 weakest positions among the strongest. I would not be opposed to drafting a good prospect in the lower rounds that need development at C.
"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"
It's not as good as some people think
but it’s not as bad as a lot of people think. Pittsburgh has holes across their line except center. I don’t think Cook is great by any means but he is servicable. Whitworth is pretty damn good and I think Andre Smith is above average. It’s just those guard positions that need to be fixed.
both g and below average c
That’s 3 position on the most critical unit of any team that needs replaced. After Whitworrh and Smith u have nothing special. Cook should be weakest link on a great line. Until that’s the case we need upgrades.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 4:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Cook was better than Andre Smith last year. Is Cook tapped-out in potential? Probably, but currently he’s a top 1/3 Center in the NFL. I graded every single snap of every single lineman throughout the year. Cook was, in a 6-week stretch, the Bengals BEST lineman and was playing at a Pro Bowl level. When Whitworth’s play took a dip starting in the Jaguars game, Cook took over and had a 6-game stretch that wouldn’t be matched by any other lineman on the team.
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 5:21 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
It is a matter of when and where do we improve the line vs RB
Both need improved, but OL is more liekly to be improved in FA. We have options already on the roster at OL in Boling and Hudson, and a stud guard is more likely to ba availble in the second round than a stud RB.
I say take DeCastro, if he is not available, take Richardson, if he is not available, take a DB.
It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain
We can get a guy to convert 3 and short in later rds
We need a homerun hitter. Pead,Miller, Martin or James will be available when we select in 2nd. We gotta grab one of this guys. All that run in between the tackle crap is overrated. We need speed, speed, speed , and speed on our team. We need to give Dalton guys who can catch short passes and go to work.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 12:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I think we have that guy in Leonard now.......
but agree we need someone to get the YAC after a short outlet throw. Benson would (if he caught the ball that is) make the catch and was dropped like a sack of potatos on that exact spot. We need someone to make one/two guys miss.
"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche
by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 31, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Just talking about short yardage for him.......no doubt about that.
"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche
by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 31, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly, or actually Scott didn't do a bad job towards the end on short yardage.
Then we need a guy with some burners, that group would be set at that point.
"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche
by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 31, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
thats what im saying
Richardson a be great pick up if we was a rb away from being elite. But we have bigger fish to fry right now. But if he there and we don’t selcet him!!!! I’m going to jump off nearest bridge.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 12:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
There are going to be running backs available....
…either in the draft or on the FA market. We already have Leonard and Scott as serviceable options. We aren’t desperate for a RB so in now way should we reach for one.
We have other position needs, like OL and CB which we would have just as much luck in the draft and have a better chance of getting and impact player.
As Jungle John noted above, the WCO doesn’t require a bell cow, that is remnant of the our past offensive scheme.
What’s my best case scenario? We take a CB and OG in the first round, pick up a RB in the 2-3 round sign a free agent. We need to remake our RB corps, but we aren’t going to do that in one draft pick or roster move.
i think the point of this whole dabate is, what RB is worth taking in the first for us.
i think Richardson is the only one that most people feel confertable with in the first, but now way he falls that far
AMAS
Agreed, outside of him it's a reach at this point. Miller included.....
"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche
by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 31, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
for sure, Miller is a first round back
but not for our offense. I wouldn’t mind getting him as a last option in the second, but he wont fall that far either.
AMAS
Still on fence about Miller in first.
He has speed, yes, but I haven’t seen enough of him to be convinced. I would rather wait until second for RB anyways. DeCastro is the guy we really need……
"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche
by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 31, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
i feel the same about miller, he has elite top end speed but he is more of a north and south type runner
we need a more shift back to complement what we have already
AMAS
He is shifty
I like Miller a lot for our offense. Reminds me of McCoy but with more speed.
I went to a lot of college games this year and the past 5 years
Went to 3 Miami games and I haven’t seen a running back hit the hole as hard as he does, in the past couple years. Yes he has some weaknesses but all the ones he does have are correctable. He really doesn’t have the wear and tear of other backs in this draft. He has solid hands and I see him becoming a very dangerous weapon in the passing game eventually. He won’t really run through a lot of people but he will run by a lot of them. People are concerned about his shoulder surgery and it’s only a minor clean up. Considering that he injured it the second game of the year and played through it the entire season only shows how tough of a kid he is.
A lot of people down in Miami says he is a cross between
McGahee and Portis. Both first round picks. But Miller didn’t have the line that those guys have.
I wouldn't say NO way
But it’s unlikely. The combine is going to mix up the top of the draft a lot. Not a lot of pass rushers projected to go early so far – that could easily change. ANd if Richardson doesn’t run a great 40 then I could see him falling.
+1
4.5 for a back is not top10 talent he will fall.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 12:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
So your saying just because a RB runs a 4.5 he's not elite?
by Bigcatdaddy on Jan 31, 2012 1:10 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I think he's saying it can keep them from getting drafted in the top 10
And I’d agree. But I’ve always thought that just about ANYTHING anyone does at the combine is pretty useless in determining what kind of player they’re going to be. I always laugh when people make such a big deal out of someone running a 4.5 versus a 4.3 forty. That is such a microscopic difference when it comes to the way a guy is actually going to play football. Richardson is not a burner, but that doesn’t mean he’s not an elite RB prospect.
+1
It really comes down to what they can do on the field. I laugh my but off every time I see that pic of Brady without a shirt on at the combine. 40 time is just that a time. It comes down to performance.
by Bigcatdaddy on Jan 31, 2012 1:21 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I agree also
But at skill positions speed and size matters. Like you said though the combine is overrated. I wouldn’t draft a guy on what he did at combine alone.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 1:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
to GMs, HCs, and Owners the combine isnt a waste of time
they get to interview the player, examine their measurements and what not.
AMAS
I'm not saying speed is irrelevant
I’m saying if you can run a 4.5 forty you’re pretty damn fast. And if you put two RB’s next to each other, one runs a 4.5 and the other runs a 4.3, hat isn’t going to tell you jack about how they actually RUN. Only time that matters is if they’ve gotten into the open field and they’re getting chased by a DB, but they have to be able to get to that level first.
And TRich can definitely get to that 2nd level
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
no doubt about it.
Unlike someone I know, he fights for extra yards.
with that line me and u can get to next level
A burner would avg 8+ yds carry on that team. What’s really makes Richardson stand out that don’t nobody talk about is he has best hands for back in draft.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 1:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
"with that line me and u can get to next level"
That’s a load of $#!+
What makes Richardson stand out is he is COMPLETE. Speed, agility, hard to take down, hands, blocks.. you name it
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
No offense but how many times u seen him play? Yes he is a BEAST but nobody from his own program it there fans say he’s better than Ingram. Now are u telling me u thought Ingram was the man also?
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 1:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
cant tell me something i dont know
Can’t take nothing away from him. Never said nothing BAD against please READ before commenting. I said he has a slow 40 time that will cause him to fall in draft. Look where I said we need a guy for short runs. do u spend ur 1st pick on that guy?
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 1:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Again you are changing the subject when a fact that denies your take is presented
He posted that link in reply to
nobody from his own program it there fans say he’s better than Ingram.
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
everybody dont agree on samething
Once again on riding another man? U don’t even the reporter from a can of paint. All they did was give there opinion like I’m giving mine. Relax dude, take a chill pill. Better yet stop even reply to what I say.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 2:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Freedom of speech
and all that. But once again, stay on the subject at hand
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
what?
the man who recruited him, and the official game program both said he was better than Ingram. If you are going to keep spouting nonsense, be prepared to be called out on it.
by EarthwormJim on Jan 31, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
I have watched him play.
I have a friend who’s son plays for Bama, and we discussed him. Seems to be the opinion is he is a complete back. But, we must be talking to different Bama fans.
by Ben-GAL on Jan 31, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
no u just putting words in my mouth
When did I ever say he wasn’t complete back???? I’ve said bans fans don’t think he was better than Ingram… How many people was saying draft Ingram last year?
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 1:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Have u EVER played sports? Why u think SEC teams and players are dominating football right now? 70% of NFL players cone from the south were speed rules. These kids are put on track teams at a young age down here.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 1:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
All I'm saying is I'd never call someone who can run a 4.5 forty "slow"
Even by NFL (or SEC) standards. Now if a guy gets to the combine and runs a 4.8 or a 4.9 or something, then you’re concerned. And if your’e talking about a DB you may be more interested in straight line speed. But a RB rarely gets the opportunity to get in the open field and just straight out run guys. It’s a nice trait to have, but it’s not necessary to make them elite.
no never said it was
But it makes all the difference in world when it comes to taking a guy that high.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 1:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree
Especially with a running back. It was surprising that Ingram went in the 1st, considering that he didn’t exactly light up the 40. I do remember him doing well in the agility drills though.
He had a knee issue that hurt him
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 4:28 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
You know
you could really do without the condescending attitude that you display toward EVERYONE that does not agree with you. Guess what… YOU CAN BE WRONG
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
ok
So u must ain’t see him talk bout my writing? We here to talk football not discuss writing. And EVERYONE don’t need u co signing
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 1:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No I did see his comment about your writing
and it’s hard as hell to understand… your point?
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
It’s hard for.me to understand sometimes am I’m in a English lesson or Bengal blog site. For a person to say speed doesn’t matter in football must don’t watch it.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 1:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Sorry if me asking ANOTHER GROWN MAN if he ever played sports offended u…
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 1:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
What's that got to do with writing?
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
how bout this
Since I can’t write but know football and u don’t know football but a great writer, why don’t we join forces? I talk u write, hell since all I’m.missing is a great editor we should be on ESPN next year.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 1:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Sorry but I have more knowledge about football than you have dispalyed
so I can write and edit my own stuff :)
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
I never see u talk football
Just agree or disagree on another man opinion huh?
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 2:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Read my posts
before you make assumptions
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
They say the same thing about WRs but we still selected Green over Jones
even though Green ran a 4.5 and Jones ran a sub 4.4. Think anyone is complaining about Green’s game speed?
by Mexal on Jan 31, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree
Maybe for a smaller back but thats plenty fast enough considering his agility to go along with a physical frame.
That was in response to
Pray4gm11 assessment of Richardson not being fast enough.
I never said he wasnt fast enough
I said he’s not fast enough to get drafted in top ten with a 4.5. Now if he runs a 4.3-4.4 at the combine or pro day I guarantee he want get past Cleveland. Now if runs a 4.5- 4.6 its possible that he might fall to 17.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 4:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
only way combine mixes up the draft that much
someone shows up and pulls an andre smith
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
by palewook on Jan 31, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I doubt he falls
I just don’t understand all these mocks having him drop to 17 when he is a top 5 in draft talent. I guess their is a chance
My favorite is when you come across a mock with the wrong order.......
one I read through yesterday still didn’t have us with a second first round pick. Makes for a reliable source lol
"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche
by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 31, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Same reason we're having this conversation
People see guys like Arian Foster and Demarco Murray and they figure you can find a good back outside the first round. It’s a reasonable argument. And it’s also reasonable to draft TR anywhere from 2nd to 20th. Just the nature fo the position. There are a lot of good backs in the league right now and even a lot of really bad teams are relatively set at the position.
those teams have:
a) luck
b) scouting departments
c) all of the above.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
We hit the same lottery with Houshmanzadeh
Fanene has also been better than his draft position should be. Everyone gets lucky sometimes.
It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain
finding housh in the 7th was almost bengal draft perfection
ok, almost, there is one deeper reach and success story i can think of..
with their 10 round selection the cincy bengals take:
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
That was Paul, not Mike, he knew football.
It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain
I was really wanting Murray last year.
I thought we were going to get him in the third. When the pick came up as Moch, I damn near broke my remote with my hands.
I don't think Scott is a serviceable option
His stats this year were worse than Benson’s, he dropped a sure touchdown pass against Baltimore, and he will be 28 next month.
I think we need to repalce both Benson and Scott, or at a minimum, replace Benson and bring in legitimate competition for Scott.
It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain
i hate to pass judgement on scott
what scott is at this point, a career backup. what he is apparently best suited for. all scott did this year was limit leonard’s clutch opportunities.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
the fa backs
depending on who gets tagged, could be a thin crowd.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
Let me re-frame the debate if you will
How many players in this years draft carry the “Best prospect since______” endorsement?
I can think of maybe 4.
Luck (Manning)
DeCastro (Hutchinson)
Richardson (Peterson)
ok, I can only think of 3.
If those guys are as good as advertised
and they fall in your lap, you take them. Even if it’s not your biggest position of need. Does anyone think the Vikings regret taking Peterson. Remember, Chester Taylor had just come off a 1,200 yeard season…
by EarthwormJim on Jan 31, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
i follow the vikes
always liked chester taylor – when he wasnt a raven. couldn’t blame the vikes for drafting AP either, would have been stupid not too.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
every draft there's a handful of can't miss prospects
mallet, ingram, jones, green. seems those were the names of 2011.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
Green fit that description.
Maybe Von Miller or Julio Jones. I can’t think of any others.
by EarthwormJim on Jan 31, 2012 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Tampa will draft him at #5
And we will all facepalm at how much time we spent debating this! :)
LOL. You are probably right.
I agree with most on here, he is the only RB we should take in the first. If he is not there, we wait.
of all the teams that could draft him
tampa is the biggest concern for me. the rest of the teams have rb’s they believe in or huge issues that have to addressed before rb. tampa’s secondary needs major work. although, if the cb they covet that early ain’t on the board, who knows. the running in tampa in 2011 was suspect.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
KC might too
who knows if Charles is all the way back.
by EarthwormJim on Jan 31, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
battle and mccluster
both averaged over 4 yards per carry and had over 500 yards each. kc has a deep back field.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
And, yes I know he's injured atm, but
Jamaal Charles has a 6.1 career YPC and averaged 6.3 YPC over his last 250 carries
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
reason the chiefs are deep
they even had a 4th back of note – jones who was good for a minute, now old, and a fa.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
Even Chiefs enthusiasts say they’d take Richardson. I agree.
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 2:42 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
no doubt
richardson is going to help a team win games starting in week 1 of his rookie season. any team would benefit from drafting him. and there are 5-6 teams in front of the bengals that could use his services. the chiefs are on that short list, they’re just a deep at running back.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
And if the Chiefs end up cutting Charles in favor of Richardson we sign Jamaal Charles?
Paul Brown Stadium, where everyone's hopes go to die.
Schiano is the coach.
With as dreadful as that defense was it would be hard to imagine that they don’t go offense. Then factor in that they have a decent back it would actually surprise me. Rice came from Rutgers, so maybe the top of 2nd they go for the “Rice clone” Doug Martin. There are a lot of things to factor when teams draft that high.
How does runningback compare with other positions?
You make a compelling arguement, but I think that there is a lot of information lacking. For instance how do other positions compare, especially WR, which is the most comparable position?
Let me tell you:
As you said, 18 Running backs have been taken in the 1st round since 2006. 5 of them rushed for 1,000. Of the 14 1,000 yards rushers this year, about 1 third were drafted in the first round since 2006.
Since 2006, 18 WR have been drafted in the 1st round. 4 of them caught more than 1,000 yards recieving this year. Of the 17 WR that had more than 1,000 yards, about 1 quarter were drafted in the first round since 2006. (5/17=29%)
So over the past 6 drafts there have been more 1st round busts at WR than at RB, without even counting receiving yards for RBs.
The same holds true for late round picks, when you consider that guys like Jordy Nelson, Victor Cruz, Nate Washington, Wes Welker, and Marquis Colston had more than 1,000 yards receiving this year, and were slected late in the draft, or not at all.
Does that mean that we should not have drafted AJ Green in the first roundsince 1st round WR have such a high bust rate? No! Because AJ Green is one of those 1,000 yard guys,
If Richardson falls, and we draft him, and he gets 5,000 yards in his first 4 seasons, our front office will be considered geniuses. If he doesn’t, that is normal.
It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain
8 of the 15 - 1000 rushers last year had been 1st round picks
7 of the 19 1000 receivers had been 1st rounders.
"Pawtucket Patriot Beer. If you drink it, hot women will have sex in your backyard."
Everyone except Jordy Nelson
He was the 5th pick of the 2nd round
Didn't remeber him from drafts
and couldn’t find that info conviently. Sorry about that.
It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain
I just knew that
Because my dad was a K-State grad and was hoping he would come to the Bengals. It’s all good Jim. Didn’t want to come across as an ass by correcting you. sorry if I did in any way.
No you didn't
I can handle a correction when its fact, I try hard to be factual, plus my point remains valid.
It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain
For every Arian Foster there are 1,000 De De Dorseys
Everyone wants to say look what Houston found as a free agent but don’t count on that happening very often.
"Pawtucket Patriot Beer. If you drink it, hot women will have sex in your backyard."
OK so we just run an offense without a running back...
since we can’t draft one and we can’t sign a FA, the answer is simple… never run the ball ever because there is obviously no such thing as a good running back.
Chris Perry/05
Took every screen pass to the house. It might not show in stats. I believe that year he had like 5td called back. Dude had skills we didn’t really get to witness because of injury.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 3:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Perry 05
If we could use Pead as we used Perry in 05, he could be very successful here. Perry failed due to injury, and when we tried to use him as a everydown back.
It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain
that would be special
I wouldn’t draft back until 2-3 where we can get a speed guy
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 4:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It's also helped that Foster went to the Texans
Behind that line and in that scheme he has become what he has become. Yes he is a good player and him fallen out of favor at Tenn didn’t help his pro prospects but if he played for some other teams, he would be the dominating player he is today imo.
I think most draft picks are a crap shoot.
You see so many busts. But if he is there, I don’t want to pass him up and then kick ourselves. You have to take him, IMO.
by Ben-GAL on Jan 31, 2012 1:33 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
All are really a crap shoot.......there are no "guarantees."
The lists of busts is just as long of “can’t miss” guys.
"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche
by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 31, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
I’m failing to see the importance of a Round 1 RB
Since RB’s (running backs or roast beef sandwiches) both have a short shelf life, I’m looking at the total rushing yards over the last 2 years.
4 RB’s have topped the 2,500 mark over the last 2 years.
They were drafted: 2 (MJD), UFA (Foster), 5 (M Turner), 2 (R Rice) – None in the 1st round
12 RB’s have topped the 2,000 mark over the last 2 years.
(This includes guys like McCoy, Mendenhall, Gore, Forte, Peterson, Benson)
Only 5 of 12 were drafted in the 1st round 42%
23 RB’s have topped the 1,500 mark over the last 2 years.
(This includes guys like Lynch, Bradshaw, Fred Jackson, Blount, Hillis, Jamal Charles)
Only 9 of 23 were drafted in the 1st round 39%
Interestingly, 26% of them were drafted in Round 7 or went undrafted
60% of the running backs who have done well lately came from outside round 1, including the most successful. Most running backs also have a very short shelf life, and wildly fluctuate in terms of success or not, dependent on injuries, offensive schemes, and O-Lines.
So I’m failing to see the importance of a Round 1 RB.
You are the biggest anti-first round poster here
I did some research on profootballreference.com
The has a stat called Career Approximate Value (AV) not sure how it’s calculated but it takes into account many performance factors.
Anyway the median AV for 1st round picks by position:
OT – 39
DT – 35
LB – 34
DB – 33
WR – 32
DE – 32
QB – 31
G/C – 31
RB – 26
All Positions -33
However, this pattern runs true through every draft round. You can’t take an OT with every pick.
Running Back is actually far worse in rounds 4-7 falling to less than half of the AV for all other positions.
"Pawtucket Patriot Beer. If you drink it, hot women will have sex in your backyard."
i think for any position, you're generally going to find more success in a 1st round guy than a 5th round guy
but the dropoff at RB from round 1 to later rounds isn’t as great as in other positions (like a LT, QB, or shutdown CB).
Also, you’re more likely to find successful RB’s later in the draft as compared to many other positions.
And the draft value of RB’s just doesn’t warrant taking an RB in round 1. Especially with the short shelf life they have.
I don’t have anything against RB’s, but i’m merely looking at draft value. That’s how i’ve won 8 of the 16 fantasy football leagues i’ve been in (including the 2011 cincy jungle one) – it’s all about draft value. I don’t see a lot of value in a 1st round RB when looking at the production.
Would you believe that Bernard Scott
Is the 30th leading rusher since 1980 among 6th and 7th round draft picks (223 total). He is likely to move up.
That means that at least 87% of 6th and 7th round RB’s are worse than Bernard Scott.
"Pawtucket Patriot Beer. If you drink it, hot women will have sex in your backyard."
i think that shows the recent undervaluing of the RB position, in that years ago, you took a round 1 RB (or two) and ran with them. Nowadays, you see teams taking their starting RB’s later and later. I wouldn’t be surprised if 6th, 7th, UFA type of RB’s are more successful now than in the 1980’s and 1990’s since better RB’s are sliding down the draft as teams are focusing a little more on other positions.
Although that’s merely speculation. But tit does seem that interior O-Linemen are making a move up in draft position, while RB’s are trending downward. I think 7 years ago, Trent would be a top 5 pick, but in 2012, he’s as likely to fall out of the top 20 as he is to be taken in the top 5. With that lack of emphasis on RB’s early, and the recent history of good ones falling to rounds 2 and 3, i’m really not loving the thought of taking a round 1 RB non named Richardson….and even if it is Trent i’m still a bit hesitant unless it’s pick 1b.
The question is, who will have a bigger impact
If the question comes down to Richardson, a guard other than DeCastro and a DB.
Most of the same DBs will be available at 21.
I don’t think taking a 1st round RB is crucial, but I think passing on Richardson for anyone but DeCastro is a mistake.
It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain
by jim0ijk on Jan 31, 2012 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You couldn't have said it any better.
If the running back is going to be more of impact than a guard, db, wr or whatever. Then of course you have to take that player.
keep in mind how many teams that have found 1000+ yard rushers in late round picks or udfa
have bigger scouting departments than cincy?
100%.
all of them. every team.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
You need a great line for anybody not named
Barry Sanders. Lineman make the back look special I’ve never seen a back make his line look special.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 1:56 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Minnesota has the WORST OL in the NFL. How does Adrian Peterson average over 3.0?
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 2:44 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
How many playoff wins AP has? His avg a carry is good but his avg per game is no better than Benson for career. And a poor line is why he probably gets hurt so often.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 4:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Uh, 4.8 ypc is much better than 3.8 ypc
That’s what matters.
And in 5 years, he has only missed 7 games. We’re not talking about someone who is hurt every year for the season.
Oh and one more thing, AP averages 30 yards more per game in his career than Benson. So what the hell are you talking about man?
"How many playoff wins AP has?"
What does that have to do with Peterson getting a decent average from behind the worst line in the league.
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
It's part of what bugs me the most about him
Whenever a fact is presented that refutes what he is saying, he twists it and changes the subject, avoiding the refutation.
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
I think people will be surprised
By the RB’s who will still be available to us in the 2nd round. I think Richardson goes in the first round, maybe even to us and then I only see maybe one other RB will go before we Pick again in 2nd (Miller, Polk, Wilson or Martin). We have a HUGE need at RB, but that’s not the case for a lot of other teams that pick before us and if they do have a need they also have a bunch of other needs that are more of a priority, (again one of thesse teams may jump on Richardson in the first because of his value but I don’t see them doing it for anyone of these other guys in 2nd). Therefore, I don’t really see a whole lot RB’s coming off the boards until the later in 2nd round (Jets, Bengals, Broncos, Pats). In the 3rd round is when I really think we may start to see a potential run on the RB position
could be one of those weird drafts too
camera goes back to richardson’s face sitting in the back room after every pick is announced. with growing worry on his face as he slides out of the 1st round. then the talking heads stop switching back to the richardson camera until his name is finally called at some point in the 2nd round.
seems unlikely. although, with the draft, odd stuff happens at times.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
If we don't get Richardson
I think the Jets or Pats are the only teams that may even consider jumping on RB in the 2nd before we pick. After we pick I could see also Denver
think the raiders could really use another back (unless they resign bush)
rundmc is their guy, yet they’re thin at depth. raiders have no real picks left in 2012 to trade up though. and they are missing a couple of picks from 2013 as well.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
Could have changed with new regime
But last I heard was they were really considering frachising him because of McFaddens injury issues.
Also speaking of possible FA RBs
Cleveland Plain dealer says the Brown are going to now try and resign Hillis as well if they can do it for around Peirre Thomas (Saints) type of money
There has been speculation that McFadden might be on the trading block
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
playing that what if game
how much would you give up for him?
a 1st? a 2nd? a 3rd?
with his injury history the only offer i could consider fair, would insult the raiders. something in the area of a 3rd round pick (conditional on games started. less than 8 equals a 4th round pick instead).
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
Yeah as explosive as he is
it would scare me to trade for him with a 1st or 2nd or more.
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Because of injuries, I'd give up
Andre Smith (who was also a 1rst round pick) and a 3rd rounder.
And then we could resign Collins at RT for a long term deal and be set at both RT and LT for years to come:)
That would be a nice trade proposal
but I don’t know if I would want him. He is talented but seems to always be hurt.
That's why I put him in the trade:)
It’s not like Andre has been real reliable in career either. If we did this I’d still want to take another RB as a security blanket it would just be way later in the draft
he's got 3 more years under contract
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6499/taiwan-jones
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
Very true
San Fran was suppose to take Rodgers first over Smith, Rodgers ended up falling because not too many teams were in the market for a qb that year. He ended up sliding to GB, who at the time didn’t need a QB. They had more pressing needs but the value was too good to pass on. I know if Rodgers can slide, any player can.
Will anyone read THIS since it's all the way at the bottom?
What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.
by jimbasa on Jan 31, 2012 1:58 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Let's just draft DeCastro and Richardson
then everyone can be happy
by EarthwormJim on Jan 31, 2012 2:32 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
interesting statistic...
83% of all statistics are made up on the spot
I believe it
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 2:44 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
anyone else like david wilson early in the draft?
yeahhhh, between that and the fumble issues. see him falling into the 3rd now.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
Not a big fan
Saw 2 games in person and while he had nice games, he also got away with a lot of things that he won’t be able to in the pros.
I don't think it's vital
You can get good running backs like a Polk, Martin and Pead in the second. It’s a matter of value. I think the only 2 running backs that are first rounders in my opinion are Richardson and Miller. I see them as the only 2 players that bring elite attributes to the table. With that being said, NFL has turned into a passing league. When you factor in the shelf life of a running back isn’t very long and teams going to more 2 and 3 back systems, there has been less emphasis on draft running backs in the first round. Thats why I wouldn’t be completely shocked that Richardson could fall to the 17th pick. Most teams that are drafting in the top 15 of the draft, most likely have more crucial holes to fill than running back.
I don't see the controversy with Richardson...
if he’s there at 17, we take him.
DeCastro as well.
If they are both there, we thank the gods and are happy with whichever we get. If the other is there at 21, we sacrifice a goat to Thor and honor his name all year long.
by Boomer Lion on Jan 31, 2012 3:13 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed, either of those guys at 17 is a steal. If we could turn around and get the other.....
than the draft is already practically a success. We focus on our secondary after that and fill some needs, watch out!
"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche
by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 31, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
If we got both DeCastro and Richardson
I will change my name to Mike Brown Jr.
Hell if we get a CB prospect in the 2nd round like a
Boykins, Norman, Robinson, Minnifield, Dennard or Gilmore. I’ll change my name to Katie Blackburn.
Get that name change form ready!
"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche
by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 31, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
DO we each sacrifice a goat?
Or can that be a get-together?
It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain
Whatever it takes to make that happen!
A get together would be more fun though, we can do tailgate style!
"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche
by The Van Buren Boys on Jan 31, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
I think we could do it as a group.
It would be a great way to bond…
You seem to be alone in this
Now whether we SHOULD take a RB in the first over another player that we need, is a more truthful statement
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty sure everyone was saying that about Ingram last year
He looks average in the NFL. I would rather draft Pead or Martin in the second and get an OG and CB with our first two picks. RB’s are easily replaced. They are a product of their O-lines blocking.
I just don't see Ingram as even close to Richardson
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Best thing about Ricjhardson is he wasn't used all downs of games
Eddie Lacey carried alot especially red zone and Ingram took most of the punshment while he was there
I dont know about that
He did sit couple yrs watching Ingram. All the other great backs Richardson getting compared to started day one in college.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 4:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
In other words
Ingram couldn’t hold Richardson’s jock
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
no they weren’t. Nobody was mocking Ingram in the top 10
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 4:32 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Have you ever seen him play?
Richardson’s production is due to his ability to make quick cuts and carry defenders 5 yards down field
he is a product of his line
But getting him at 17 would be a steal. Dude runs with power and has the best HANDS for back in draft. I see him mote of an LT than AP for that reason. The ONLY knock on him is he doesn’t have breakaway speed.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 4:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You will probably get 5-7 good years
out of Richardson or any other back. Thats about what the window for this current team to do their damage is. If Richardson can be a dominating player during that time. Why not pick him or any other player that could possibly provide that in the first.
No Brainer
It’s not like its a top 5 pick and we giving them a 50mil signing bonus. We can take gamble with both picks.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 4:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Most of the league has taken a RB in the first round since 2006
Cincinnati is one of the exceptions.
Only 8 teams have not taken a RB in the first 2 rounds in the past 6 years. 10 teams have taken at least 2 RB in the first 2 rounds in the last 6 years.
Most contenders seem to take a RB once their QB situation is settled. New England has taken a 1st and 2nd round back. Indy took 2 firsts. Arizona took a 1st round back after losing the NFC championship, New Orleans after losing the NFC championship.
A 1st round/elite running back is not vital to a super bowl win, but most teams seem to think its easier with one.
It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. ~ The Brain
dont nees too either
SB teams have great Qb,DL and OL. Rb last thing good teams go after.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 4:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
A good running game would help Dalton BIG time.
A good O-line helps too, but our wasn’t like the worst ever or anything. In fact, Andy moves around pretty well, and our pass blocking wasn’t bad. We need to step it up for our RB’s, but I am pretty sure some of the lack of a running game had to do with the RB we had. Of course the game is won in the trenches, but for a young QB, a good running game could become his best friend, along with a back who can catch a dang ball.
+1
Dalton is going to be as good as what they put around him. I love the guy but we need to get him a running game and why wouldn’t we all want to. They say a QB’s best friend is a running game and that includes a o line.
by Bigcatdaddy on Jan 31, 2012 5:08 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
You know the Giants have a poor OL, right? Then look at how many sacks the Packers & Steelers gave up last year. Also check their yards per carry. Then get back to me.
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 5:26 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Also
I think good to great teams usually have the luxury to draft running backs in the first. One, because teams have gone away from drafting them high and that makes the good running backs slide to where the higher teams draft. At that point they are probably the highest rated players on the board. Two, they don’t have the holes that the teams drafting higher than they do have. Thats why running backs usually start coming off the board towards the later part of round one and early second.
How come there is always this idea that if we grab a RB in the first he has to run behind the same line we had this year?
Contrary to what most people believe on this blog, there ARE guards that can be had in the second round. GOOD guards. Guards that have next to no drop off from the guards we could get in the first outside of DeCastro. So unless DeCastro is there at 17, we might as well wait to grab a guard in the 2nd.
If Gruden thinks that a specific back is HIS guy and we don’t think he’ll be there in the 2nd round I have absolutely no problem grabbing that guy in the first and getting a guard second round. Also don’t forget we still have Boling who could be a very good starter this year, and Otis Hudson could challenge also. Since we are looking at all of these stats on which RBs were drafted in the first and how good they are can we do the same kind of breakdown for guards?
by Luke on Jan 31, 2012 5:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I love you
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 5:27 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Breakdown
Marshal Yanda – 3rd (86th overall)
Carl Nicks – 5th (164th overall)
Ben Grubbs – 1st (29th overall)
Jahri Evans – 4th (108th overall)
Josh Sitton – 4th (135 overall)
Logan Mankins – 1st (32nd overall)
Kris Dielman – UDFA
Chris Snee – 2nd (34th overall)
Eric Steinbach – 2nd (33rd overall)
Chris Kemoeatu – 6th (204th overall)
Brian Waters – UDFA
Brandon Moore – UDFA
Wowlookomgonly2ofthebestguardsweredraftedinround1omgomg
I think you guys may be overvaluing the guard position. Yes we need an upgrade at guard. Unless DeCastro is there no way in hell we should take a guard in round 1. Taking a guard not named DeCastro in the first is probably a reach.
We can get a guard in the 2nd that is next to no dropoff from any guard we could get in the first not named DeCastro. THINK THINK THINK!
Also Boling was a 4th round pick don't count him out just yet.
Personally I think he will be starting in Livings spot next year. Also think we resign Bobbie maybe for a year or two and let him have a go at it with Hudson and McGlynn behind him and Hudson could turn into his replacement or we can draft a guy who can… but not in the first round (other than if DeCastro is still there… but 17 is still REALLY high for a guard pick).
Only problem with 2nd round Guard is DeCastro could be a top 10 pick
and he’s dragging the value of all the other G up. I’d love Zeitler or Washington both would start in place of Livings. After these there’s a big drop off in talent we may be left high and dry in 2nd having to reach with other teams having this same idea G in 2nd. I’m sticking with Peter Konz which will also stuff up Baltimore, Matt Birk 36 I think.
Thinking 7 guards are going to be taken before our 2nd round pick?
Not to mention any centers or tackles that could be put at guard.
that won't happen while we pay him what we do
Even if it should.
G - Deep class
I graded 11 guards as Starters or developmental Starters in last year’s draft. This year, I have 23. THAT’S how deep Guard is.
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 5:54 PM EST via Android app reply actions
2nd & 3rd
Will be the sweet spot for Guards. Will be some developmental guys available in round 4 also.
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 6:00 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I'll have a post on the Guard position later this week
but as far as “What developmental starters could be available in round 4?”…
here are a few:
Brandon Brooks – Mia OH
Senio Kalemente – Washington
Lucas Nix – Pitt
Ryan Miller – Colorado
Bobbie Massie – Ole Miss
Andrew Datko – Fl State
James Brown – Troy
are a few guys I have last late 3rd through 5th that I think could develop into starters and would have similar grades to Clint Boling from last year.
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 6:09 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Sorry Joe but I don't agree that this draft isn't deep in G but it is in T
If this is the senario we’ll have for a G picking another project or backup I’m for getting Jeremy Zuttah in FA and letting him and Boling fight it out for LG starting spot.
depending on if we resign some of our own FA
i think it would make more sense to draft for a RB in the second and DBs in the first. While waiting to get a G in the 3rd. I think those rounds we find the best value for each position.
AMAS
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