Grading The 2011 Bengals: Safeties
by Jason Garrison on Jan 31, 2012 4:30 PM EST
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PrintOne major concern in the past few offseasons for the Bengals has been the safety position. The Bengals came into the 2011 season needing to upgrade the position once again and, for a few minutes, it seemed that they did. Donte Whitner announced that he was signing with the Bengals on Twitter but moments later he took it back and signed with the 49ers. The Bengals were going to head into the season with Chris Crocker and Reggie Nelson as their starters.
Even after the team traded for 49ers safety Taylor Mays, Crocker and Nelson were the main guys. Once again the Bengals need to upgrade the safety position before the season starts. Before we get into that, though, here are the grades for each Bengals safety and the grade for the unit as a whole for 2011.
Free Safety Reggie Nelson: Nelson started every game at free safety for the Bengals and of the two starters, he was the best. He struggled in run support at times with a ProFootballFocus.com score of -3.8 but he wasn't too bad in pass coverage, earning a score of 1.5. Nelson also had three sacks on the season and picked off four passes. He was flagged for some terrible hits on defenseless receivers penalties but for the most part played pretty well. His overall grade from PFF was -3.1.
Strong Safety Chris Crocker: Crocker is a liability on the field both in pass coverage and in run support. His grade for coverage was -2.9 and his run defense score was -4.7. The only positive score he received was as a pass rusher. The play that stands out to me the most was his terrible tackling (I guess he was trying to tackle) attempt on Arian Foster in the playoff game. Crocker has to be replaced for the Bengals to shore up the secondary in 2012. His overall grade was -4.7.
Free Safety Gibril Wilson: Wilson played as much as 30 snaps in some games but in most games he was barely on the field. His run defense score was -0.8 and his pass coverage grade was -0.2. He also had a score of -1 for special teams play.
Strong Safety Taylor Mays: One player that Bengals fans wish they could see more of is Mays. He only saw action in seven games and didn't really play enough in those games for us to get a good look at what he could do. He had a run defense score of -0.8 and a pass coverage score of -1.3 for a total grade of -2. He did have a special teams grade of 1.5, though.
Free Safety Robert Sands: The rookie safety out of West Virginia was only active for one game, the Week 13 matchup against the Steelers, but didn't accumulate any stats.
Strong Safety Jeromy Miles: Miles was also only active in the team's Week 14 matchup and like Sands, he didn't accumulate any stats.
While I'm mostly comfortable with Reggie Nelson moving forward, I'm not comfortable with Crocker. The Bengals need to take a long hard look at the safety position before they take the field in 2012. Whether they promote Mays or find a new safety in the draft or in free agency, it's clear they need to do something. One thing that the Steelers and Ravens have in common, other than their great defenses, are great safeties in Troy Polamalu and Ed Reed. If the Bengals want an elite defense, they have to upgrade the position.
For their play in 2011, I would give the Bengals safeties a D. What would you give them?
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Can we get d____ safety without a negative rating?
This is my point about Barron….or someone…Crock is gone, so I know at least that will change….
"In a battle between patience and power, patience always wins"
lol im kinda skeptical of this whole grading scale
i know reggie should be graded in the top as far as safties go. I would like to know what Troy Polamalu’s grade is because I know Reggie had slightly better stats…
AMAS
Different stats though
Im sure Troy has less picks because he’s all over the field and a lot of QB’s don’t throw where he is on the field. The majority of TO’s for Troy come off of him running to a certain spot/receiver where he thinks the ball is going based off of his preparation, which means he’s a big time liability in pass coverage. His run support is much better because during rushing situations, he comes up in the box for run support.
by whodeycommish14 on Jan 31, 2012 4:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Then you have the patent
Sack and strip that he always does when he blitzes.
by whodeycommish14 on Jan 31, 2012 5:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Rumblings and grumblings they were
You’re correct. He did get beat more this season because he was exposed in coverage last season (I.e. Super Bowl vs Packers). That’s why I think I’d rather have a guy like Nelson who can cover somebody man up or cover in space.
by whodeycommish14 on Jan 31, 2012 5:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
im sure he lines up different in more formations, but thats not justification giving Nelson a low score
I would like to know what Troy’s overall rating to get an idea on how they actually rate this players.
AMAS
I don't think Nelson's score his low though.
I would like to see how they make their grades.
by whodeycommish14 on Jan 31, 2012 5:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
lets see, for a FS, he had 4 ints and one for a TD
I think he had around 8 or 9 stops, 4 forced fumbles, and one fumble recovery. I can only remember him getting beat once, maybe two at the most.
I think his numbers should be pretty good. IMO
AMAS
Absolutely....
Which is why I think those numbers can be skewed.
by whodeycommish14 on Jan 31, 2012 5:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i understand your way of thinking but I just think you have it a little backwards
if Troy has more freedom to roam around and do his own things, then I would expect his numbers to be way better than Nelsons. But there not. Nelson didn’t have the opportunity to play up on the line like Troy can because we had a big liability at SS.
AMAS
I see your point.
I just don’t think his numbers would be better in coverage if he’s allowed to roam because I would think he would miss on his guesses/reads more often than not.
by whodeycommish14 on Jan 31, 2012 5:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
well i was just pointing out thats why Troy may have more sacks or tackles for losses because he litterally is on the line of scrimmage a lot for a FS
I think if Nelson had the opportunity to blitz like troy he would probably have more turn overs as well
AMAS
I agree
Sorry about my miscommunication errors haha.
by whodeycommish14 on Jan 31, 2012 5:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ha yes.
Your way just made more sense hahaha
by whodeycommish14 on Jan 31, 2012 6:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i don't see the love for Nelson
He’s average which compared to Crocker looks good.
Attention Mike Brown: One-and-done doesn’t cut it. You will see more empty seats next year if you don’t show the fans you’re trying to win the Super Bowl!
by occams_tiger_teeth on Jan 31, 2012 9:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Although Nelson's not great, its better to re-sign him so that's one less hole on the roster to fix, then get Nelson's replacement in the 2013 draft, which has much better safeties.
Paul Brown Stadium, where everyone's hopes go to die.
Yeah I think they should resign him
too.
I would re-sign Sims, Lawson, Nelson, Nugent and Jennings.
None of those guys has a super-awesome PFF grade. Lawson had the best grade of the upcoming Bengals FAs I think. Those five are pretty useful.
I think people (especially in this site) tend to overrate the Bengals players, so you see people calling for resigning everybody but Livings (when in reality some of the other free agents are about as replaceable as Livings)
Attention Mike Brown: One-and-done doesn’t cut it. You will see more empty seats next year if you don’t show the fans you’re trying to win the Super Bowl!
by occams_tiger_teeth on Feb 1, 2012 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
Mays and Nelson next year
book it got enough holes to fill shouldnt give up on mays yet
by Bengalsfan024 on Jan 31, 2012 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
too soon to give up on Mays...
Let’s see what Zimmer and whoever the DB’s coach is going to be do with him…
Too soon to give up on Mays, but we should bring in someone for competition.
Paul Brown Stadium, where everyone's hopes go to die.
OK, but this is where the first round gets dicey.
If Barron is there at 21, I say don’t take him, because you’re essentially giving up on Mays and Sands as SS prospects. Maybe go for a SS in the third round or something, but you can’t take one in the first unless he’s a sure thing, which Barron is not.
I'm throwin' rocks tonight! Mark it, Dude.
by Pardon_My_French on Jan 31, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed, I wouldn't take Barron either because there are higher rated players in the 1st at other positions of need for the Bengals. I'd wait for at least the 3rd round to take a strong safety.
Paul Brown Stadium, where everyone's hopes go to die.
I'm grading on a 1-10 scale for more flesibility
GRADE 3/10
I agree on your synopsis, however Mays has done nothing to tell me he can be more than a freak athelete without being tactically sound and a total liability in all aspects as a starter.
For the future I would try to find another accomplished vet (either drop Crock or mine the FA wire) and draft 2nd or 3rd round.
Nelson
He is a good player. He gives up his share of plays but also makes his fair share too. He definitely needs to be re-signed but if I was the Bengals, I wouldn’t hold me for ransom either. As far as Crocker goes, well he needs to unless he is going to back up and play special teams. They went out and try to get a Whitner in free agency last year, so my gut is that they will try again this year.
well the flaw is
both CHOSE to go elsewhere when they could have signed here. one didnt even know he had chose the 49ers till his agent told him lol
by Bengalsfan024 on Jan 31, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
Nelson needs to learn how to wrap up
That’s his biggest issue. He doesn’t go for the sure tackle but instead the big hit. That’s why he misses so many tackles.
Every single game
Seriously, the guy is the poster child for missed tackles.
Yep.
According to Pro Football Focus, Nelson only missed two tackles on attempted stops against receivers (or tight ends or running backs) that caught the football, giving him a tackle efficiency of 19.0 (which means he successfully made 19 stops to one missed tackle in coverage). Additionally Nelson only allowed an opposing passer rating of 73.9 and a team-leading four interceptions in 2011 — one of which he returned for a touchdown against Seattle
I'm not talking about in coverage
I’m talking about in run support.
still think your thinking of Crocker, Crocker almost had a big whiff in every single game this year
Nelson was pretty solid in the passing and run game
AMAS
You're changing your story already bro.
by whodeycommish14 on Jan 31, 2012 5:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
How?
Show me where I was exclusively talking about pass coverage? Show where I even mentioned pass coverage?
You were talking about tackling in general I believe
Were you not?
by whodeycommish14 on Jan 31, 2012 5:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yes, the majority
In pass coverage, according to Ben-Gals stats, he had 19 stops. How many total tackles did Nelson have? 85. Therefore, where did the rest of the stops come from? Seriously, don’t try to twist my words. Not worth it.
well 85-19 = 66
so i guess we can assume he had 66 tackles to stop the run. Doesn’t show that he missed a bunch of tackles on running plays
AMAS
No
But it does mean that only missing 1 tackle versus 19 stops against the pass is cherry picking stats to prove a point when ignoring the other 66 tackles and potential missed tackles there. That’s the point.
Either way, I posted at the bottom of this. I’m done arguing, no point. I like Nelson, always have. I’m not saying we should get rid of him. I’m just saying I’ve seen him go for the shoulder hit it instead of wrapping up and costing us a big run. It doesn’t happen often but it does happen. Maybe the only reason I’m thinking of this is because it happened at the end of the season mostly. Who knows.
for some reason, i just remeber Nelson missing any tackles at all, let alone a big running play.
Im sure he missed a few tackles, but I specifically remember Crocker missing 3 tackles that led to big TD runs.
AMAS
He had a bad game against Baltimore
He couldn’t bring down Rice.
Crocker's "tackling" on that Foster run in the playoffs was an absolute disgrace.
It’s one thing if he makes a mistake. But on that play, he didn’t even try.
Cincy Jungle: Where the Rocky Mountains are in the Pacific Ocean
Actually, I think it has been determined that
Crocker was blocking for Foster, not tackling him.. :)
That's what I called it.......
Crocker really helped spring him for that one! Great “block” by old CC! lol
"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche
by The Van Buren Boys on Feb 1, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
Lol
Ok little buddy. Didn’t mean to twist words you didn’t use.
by whodeycommish14 on Jan 31, 2012 5:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Thank you.
Was going to point this out. His tackle efficiency was 19.0 which means 19 stops to one missed tackle, not 19 stops all season.
Nelson had 9 missed tackles on the year
Crocker had 7.
Thought that was humorous. Don’t get me wrong, I think Nelson is infinitely better than Crocker, just pointing this out.
Also, he’s not anywhere near the worst in the league (about average I’d say) when it comes to this. I just think that some big runs have been because of his missed tackle.
Barron and Mays are studs on run defense. Barron hit harder than Mays so u know how special that would be.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 6:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Here it is
In defense of Mays, he had a bad start with Singletary mucking the team up. as we saw they went to the NFC championship. I think we the great coaching of Zim…and the GREAT addition of Rod Woodsen if that happens…we will finally have a pro bowler at SS in MAys. It’s there….we just have to get him in the mix. I can’t wait till training camp, I know the kid has a serious chip on his shoulder. Marvin favored Crock because he’s a veteran and captain…which cost us in the end. Go Tmays
In defense of Singletary
He isnt a x’s and o’s guy,but that defense wrapped up and tackled like no other this year
I dont think thats just a coincidence,I have hope for Mays,but if he couldnt get on the field this year,i’m not sure he is the answer
going forward.Probably a better backup,for depth
"A team is more than a group of individuals,its a group of individuals that come together to make a team"
Nelson has to stay.
He has really come along under Zimm. I sure hope Mays can do the same, both of these guys can lay the wood. I want safeties that are feared.
I agree
I hate that most people are over looking that Nelson stat wise had a better year than Troy and Ed, so I don’t care about the rating scale. Hell! Ed Reed missed a tackle on B. Scott, so lets not look at his mistakes and look at the fact he accounted for more turnovers than anyone els on the team. Re-sign him ASAP please!!!!!!!!
by Terrell Keith Renaker on Jan 31, 2012 5:26 PM EST reply actions
Definitely need to resign him
Best safety we have.
Word is Miami might go after him because of the Coyle connection. The Front Office better get on that soon.
Which is my worry
We’re normally pretty cheap…
Not sure who he’d like more. I think he would have more interaction with Coyle than Zimmer on a regular basis. Weird situation actually.
Shouldn't be that expensive actually
Safeties don’t make that much at the moment.
i believe the highest paid saftey is carson palmer
after he throws a pic, he essentially is a FS lol
AMAS
by AMAS85 on Jan 31, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This sounded so strange at first........
but I have to agree. For the cost and to guarantee we retain our only playmaker currently at the S spot, I think we have to. We lose him, now what do we do?
"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche
by The Van Buren Boys on Feb 1, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
I'm worried, though, because he has some ties to Florida in addition to the fact that they might outbid us.
Cincy Jungle: Where the Rocky Mountains are in the Pacific Ocean
Barron and Mays would be brutal combo
Don’t want Nelson to leave, but getting Barron would upgrade. Barron is best defensive player in draft.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 6:30 PM EST via mobile reply actions
If I'm not mistaken Barron is a SS
So is Mays. They wouldn’t be on the field together.
by Bigcatdaddy on Jan 31, 2012 7:07 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Then teams can just loft it over the tops of us because who would we have to cover anyone?
Big hitters, sure. But our problem has been giving up huge plays on broken coverages.
"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche
by The Van Buren Boys on Feb 1, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Didn't someone say on a post earlier
That a GM said Nelson was the dumbest player he ever talked to? With that being said, maybe he stays here because the coaches put a leash on his assignments. Nelson wasn’t very good in Jax and came here and has been a solid player. So imagine what they could possibly do for Mays with a full offseason. Or who knows Coyle may become a bigger loss than anyone can imagine.
I think the Coyle/Nelson connection is even more important..
when you consider that he’s kind of “dumb.” He may look at Coyle as the mentor and teacher improving his career. So if he stays we may lose that connection, and if he goes we may lose a budding star.
im pretty sure that was Joe G
but i wouldn’t put too much into that…. if he was that incompitent, he would be out there… And if Joe really was talking to a real scout, then I wouldn’t beleive anything he says. Because he could just be blowing smoke.
AMAS
I Love the way Reggie Hits.
Receivers coming across the middle don’ t !!
PS…………Those defenseless receiver penalties this year were completely bogus.
"What we do in this life echoes in eternity"
Maximus*
100% agree.....if anything, those should be the template for how your supposed to hit a receiver with all the new rules.
Didn’t lead with head, weren’t helmet to helmet, receiver had chance to make play…..blah, blah, blah. Horrible new rules.
"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche
by The Van Buren Boys on Feb 1, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
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