2012 NFL Draft: A New Mock Draft Has a Little Different Spin For The Bengals
by Anthony Cosenza on Jan 31, 2012 7:37 PM EST
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PrintWe're just under three months away from the NFL Draft and the mock drafts are in full swing. Now that the Senior Bowl has been played, the draftnicks all have a little bit of a better grasp on the prospects and where they may land. This will probably change again in the coming weeks with the Scouting Combine and Pro Days.
Most of us know the Bengals' biggest needs this offseason and many mock drafts we've posted on Cincy Jungle have a similar feel to them. SB Nation's draft site, Mocking the Draft, has just released their latest first-round mock draft and they have the Bengals taking two high-profile players with their two first round picks.
At pick No. 17, Mocking the Draft has the Bengals taking South Carolina cornerback, Stephon Gilmore.
Stephon Gilmore | Cornerback | South Carolina: The Bengals struggled to find a good replacement for Jonathan Joseph this season and Gilmore is a good replacement. He's a big cornerback with good quickness and tackling ability.
In their mock, Gilmore is the fourth cornerback taken in the first round with Morris Claibourne, Dre Kirkpatrick and Janoris Jenkins all being picked in front of him. The more I hear about this kid, the more I like. It also sounds like he's an ideal Mike Zimmer cornerback.
With their second pick, No. 21, Mocking the Draft has the Bengals taking Miami running back, Lamar Miller.
Lamar Miller | Running back | Miami: Cedric Benson's production has dropped and he's averaged less than four yards per carry the last two seasons. He's also 28. His backup Bernard Scott has never shown the ability to take over the top spot. Miller, who is entering the draft following his redshirt sophomore year, could start for the Bengals for years. He's quick and has great cut and burst ability.
Miller is an exciting player with a lot of big play capability. The Bengals need this type of explosiveness from the position, as they haven't had it in quite a few years. Miller is the second running back to come off of the board in the first round of this mock draft.
The team could go a variety of different ways with their two picks, but these two positions (and these specific players) make a lot of sense. It's becoming more and more of a popular opinion that this is the way that they will look. We'll know more in the coming weeks and months.
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I would take it.
I like the size on Gilmore a lot. Just look at Sherman for the Seahawks. Played pretty well just because he has good size and he was a 5th rounder. Given Gilmore isn’t as tall as he is, but it shows that there is an advantage to having some size while still being fluid.
As far as Lamar Miller I like him, but I also like Doug Martin. Would it be a bad move to take Martin ahead of Miller? I guess we will have to wait for the combine and see.
-1
Miller is a beast…
"In a battle between patience and power, patience always wins"
by ticalcaldwell on Jan 31, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
I am confused...
You give it a -1, but then say “Miller is a beast”???
He gave BengalDude's comment a -1
Because he said he would take Martin over Miller.
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
Much better
Finally no dennard. Plus Gilmore is the truth, although I may be a little biased
by SCbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 7:46 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Dennard probably isn't happening in Round 1.
His stock fell at the senior bowl, because teams, scouts and draftniks saw what apparently most people saw: he has holes in his game.
I'm throwin' rocks tonight! Mark it, Dude.
by Pardon_My_French on Jan 31, 2012 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. He confirmed most fears that he can’t play off-man or track the deep ball. He does offer some nice physicality, but he would be a liability in most schemes. Steelers would love him. He’s an Ike Taylor to me.
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 8:40 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
almost all mocks have steelers drafting o-line
how awesome would it be if they took dennard? steelers love cbs that are spotty in coverage..
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
I'd be extremely happy
Gilmore!
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 7:47 PM EST via Android app reply actions
I honestly think the draft could easily go this way come April.
For the Bengals at least. I don’t see then addressing starting CB or RB in free agency. Drafting these two players would be amongst my most likely scenarios.
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 7:53 PM EST via Android app reply actions
If both Martin and Miller are there who would you take?
At this point, prior to the combine, and with the extent of Miller’s injury being unknown I’m inclined to reach a little for Martin at 21 over Miller. I realize Martin doesn’t have Miller’s burst or super speed but he seems to be a consistent 4.5-5 ypc back with good blitz pick-up skills and great hands out of the backfield. What are your thoughts?
I’d take Martin but I recognize Miller may have more upside.
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by Joe Goodberry on Feb 1, 2012 6:48 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Miller is a Redshirt "Sophmore" who played at "The U"
Hell Yeah! He has more upside.
+ He is the fastest player in college this year (Hands down).
"What we do in this life echoes in eternity"
Maximus*
But upside doesn't always equate to the field in the NFL
and Martin really is a guy who fits this version of the WCO being run by Gruden. I think Miller would make the spectacular play here and there but this offense is about consistency and moving the ball. Martin will be the more consistent of the backs and his skill set better suits this team. I think, when comparing the 2 you plug Martin into the system and with Miller you build part of the system around him. I like option #1 better at this point.
I'm loving the picks
Gilmore especially. He should almost certainly be there when we pick. I’d be upset if we didn’t take him.
I wouldn't cry
I like Gilmore a lot. I think maybe we trade down a few spots if we really want Miller. I’d prefer Martin in the second IF he’s there
No way - NO MILLER IN FIRST ROUND!!
I like the Gilmore pick,but we should not pass up on Cordy Glenn (G,OT).Wait til the 2nd round to pick up Doug Martin.He is built to play in the AFC North.
1A Gilmore
1B Glenn
2 Martin
We hit these picks and we will be kickin butt in 2012.
Kenneth Michael Powers
No guarantees Martin makes it to the 2nd
And I don’t want Glenn in the first.
Glenn is a bad choice for the first.
It’s a big reach at 21. Only way he gets taken in the first is at the bottom end of it, otherwise he will fall to the second round. That most likely means Glenn, Osemele, Zeitler are taken in the 2nd, and I’m guessing Osemele or Zeitler will be there for our pick, and they have very little dropoff from Glenn.
Only way Glenn should be taken round 1 is...
if it’s as an OT. Teams will value him more. The Bengals probably only view him as an immediate Guard. They’d have a lower grade on him.
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 9:19 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
We need to spend $ on 3rd year FA "Nicks" from New Orleans
Then…………
1.Janoris Jenkins or Gilmore
2.Lamar Miller
3.Alshon Jeffrey
And we are set!!
"What we do in this life echoes in eternity"
Maximus*
I like these picks. Question is would it be smarter for us to trade down for another RB in the 2nd round instead of drafting Miller.
was it smart to trade down to draft a RB later in 2004?
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 8:20 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Exactly
I know we’d all love to trade back and draft what is perceived ad equal RB talent in round 2, but if the Bengals love a guy, take him. Don’t bank on somebody being there. Especially when we’re talking 30 picks later. Steven Jackson wasn’t there 2 picks later.
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 8:25 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I like Gilmore but not at 17
Don’t know if I take #4cb over #1safety. I still say Barron is must have at 17. And if Poe still on board @21 we have to also take him. Rb & G in 2-3…
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 8:32 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Well, Gilmore is #3 in my CB rankings and one of the last of the elite CB prospects. Besides Claiborne, Gilmore has the least concerns in his game & character. Also, Gilmore is #18 on my Big Board while Barron is #22. So #4 CB vs #1 S doesn’t apply for me here.
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 8:36 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Barron has more int and tackles better. Both have the same speed and size so what makes Gilmore higher?
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 8:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
First. You can’t compare stats at different positions. And I have never looked at Barron’s or Gilmore stats. No need to.
Now to answer your question. I like Gilmore’s ability to become a complete player and eventually a top player at his position. I like Barron also, but I don’t think his chances to become a complete player are as high as Gilmore’s. Barron can become a solid coverage guy, but will never be good in man to man. That doesn’t mean he wont be good. Troy P can’t cover man to man. I just think Gilmore can become a complete CB in every phase while having the ability to cover every type of WR there is.
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 8:55 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Joe...
This is how Pray4gm11 goes about it. No matter what you will say, he will just keep on with his point. I am actually surprised he is using stats, but then again it is his stats, and if you say otherwise he will ignore your stats and try to find holes in it. Good luck, he does not let go…..
Ain’t that the point of this board to agree and disagree bout bengals?
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 9:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
To a certain extent...
You kind of go to the extreme…. :)
I don’t know people personally. Maybe he’s 12? He’s probably not. Either way, I try to explain my process and how I come to my conclusions so that my theories and statements make sense to everybody.
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 9:04 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I completely understand....
Just wanted to give you a little heads up about pray4gm11
I was only putting up stats because u mentioned Gilmore has having more big play ability. And if u ain’t go compare stats u can’t knock Barron for not being able to cover man to man. What SS covers man to man in league on a successful level? Barron compares to Reed and we can’t pass that up. Gilmore is good though so its no knock on him.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 9:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
lol what?
A) When did I say Gilmore had more play-making skills than Barron?
B) How do stats show Barron can cover man to man?
C) You compared him to Ed Reed. The best cover safety of our Generation. After you said what SS can cover?
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 9:03 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Didn’t say u said Gilmorw was more of a playmaker. And never said Barron can cover nan to nan. And Ed Reed gets 95% of his int playing center feild not man to man.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 9:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
‘You are now entering… the Twilight Zone’
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 9:11 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
He does
As a FS. Which is why I found it interesting that he compared Barron to him after calling Barron a SS.
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 9:15 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
My bad safety period. We call Barron Ss because he can hit but in Alabama cover 1 he played centerfeild. For what its worth he does have more int than any top secondary player in country plus tackles.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 9:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
just to note: Taylor Mays played tons of center field at USC
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 9:22 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Taylor Mays was never considered ball hawk. Barron is the best ball hawk in draft, its a big difference. And Barron is 10x smarter than Mays. Barron can play FS and Mays SS.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 9:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I never said Mays was a ball hawk. Hey, I like Barron. He wouldn’t be in my top 25 if I didn’t. We’re on the same page here.
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 9:32 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Why when I disagree everybody gang up on me like its a problem? Dude I watch tons of football. Barron has more int than any Cb, lb, s, DL in draft. So what r u talking about. Mind ur business. See Joe that!!!
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 9:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Dude I watch tons of football. Barron has more int than any Cb, lb, s, DL in draft.
So?
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
See my comment below that he also plays for Bama.
You can’t compare a stat for a player and then compare it to a stat for a player at a different position on a different team.
Yeah I saw that and rec'd it
But it won’t matter ;-)
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
My Lou.t is not to compare stat, I’m tryin to show Yall how much if ball hawk Barron is. We all know he could tackle with best of them. Be honest how many of Yall knew Barron leads all dbs in draft in int?
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 9:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
So that means u get a guy that has Ed Reed potential. You telling me a safety that has more int/tackles than any secondary player in draft isn’t worth top 15 pick? He runs 4.5 and was basically 4yr player on best defense in nation in past years.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 9:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
"best defense in nation in past years."
But he isn’t the whole defense
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
I like Barron and I would never say he has “Ed Reed potential”
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 9:41 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Don’t see why not? What’s knock on Barron?
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 9:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Because...
you REFUSE to accept other people’s points, you just have your points and immediatly discredit what others say. It is not about people ganging up on you, you put yourself in a position where it is you against everyone else. Then when you don’t like the argument, you then lash out at people by claiming they don’t watch football or they are not as educated about the game as you. In reality you really only have yourself to blame. A conversation even an argument can and should be a two way street, not a one way…
by pemci on Jan 31, 2012 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t say ur wrong I still just point out my arguments. Ain’t nothing what we saying facts so we all free to give our opinion. It’s 100 different opinions on here. Why mine get ? I’m starting to smell haters.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 9:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You built your reputation.
How many people have you butted head with against?
I can’t control people that don’t mind there own business or who don’t know how to debate. Quit crying and man up we all grown its all for love if game. I still think I got more football knowledge than anybody on this site.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 9:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And how do I put myself in position where its me against everyone? I don’t even comment or talk to Yall so? I never said nobody on here was wrong dude
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 9:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Because you present arguments with
extremely faulty logic and then when people point it out you just say no you’re wrong shut up. Pretty much that
What’s faulty buddy? And I watch so much games over and over its hard for avg Joe to convince me. But I’m not always right either.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 9:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
What’s faulty buddy? And I watch so much games over and over its hard for avg Joe to convince me. But I’m not always right either.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 9:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I have read your past posts...
just go back to your whole argument over Reggie Nelson on Friday…
Barron only had 10 ints for his CAREER
Also he played on a defense with so much talent that he the talent to freelance.
12
That’s more than any top db in draft. And please don’t say he played on stacked team.
by pray4gm11 on Feb 1, 2012 10:14 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Please don't say he didn't
I don’t think it’s right but I will give you 12 int’s in 4 years. You said he led D1 in picks and he didn’t come close. Thats all i’m saying. I’m not hating on Barron. I just think there would be better options next year.
I said hr leds all top dbs in draft in int and tackles
by pray4gm11 on Feb 1, 2012 10:52 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
It’s about 15 teams that u can say stacked in way or another
by pray4gm11 on Feb 1, 2012 10:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
No other team
is as stacked on defense as Alabama. Also how many of these guys have more ints per year? Remember Baron played for 4 years, so others might have more stats on a per year basis. Again I’m not bashing Baron, I like him, but your stats are not a good presentation and the logic you are using in presenting them is faulty.
Mostly every prospect as played 3-4 yrs. Not really using stats to compare him to nobody. Just really saying how can we pass up on him when he’s a spectacular player. Ok yes he played in a great defense, but who fault is that? EVERY top prospect played with a stacked unit I don’t care what school it is. That’s what makes you SPECIAL when u standout among other great players.
by pray4gm11 on Feb 1, 2012 11:06 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Haha
That would be a better arguement. Like I said I don’t have a problem with Barron. I like a couple guys in the 3rd this year and 5 guys next year more. Maybe he comes here and is great and I’ll eat my words.
Lol name 1 DB in draft u can say produced that much? Hell probably only 5lb got more tackles than him. He is without a doubt the best defensive player in country my friend….
by pray4gm11 on Feb 1, 2012 11:31 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Harrison Smith
Barron’s career numbers
235 total tackles
13.0 tackles for loss
5 sacks
12 int 1 td
34 pass defensed
1 forced fumble
Smith
307 total tackles
18.5 tackles for loss
3.5 sacks
7 int
35 pass defensed
2 force fumbles
My point is you can get Smith probably late 2nd to the 3rd and he has been just as productive as Barron. And he is a better looking athlete,imo.
Wouldn’t mind Smith. Both are students of game that produce. I think Barron still has more big play ability.
by pray4gm11 on Feb 1, 2012 11:50 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Thats all I was trying to get at
IMO Smith would be better value in the 3rd than Barron in the first. I think you may be right but a lot of teams were going away from throwing the ball to Smith’s side of the field this year. He had 7 ints last year and 0 this year. So he didn’t get the chance to display his big play ability. I have to watch Notre Dame games against my will but he stood out in every game.
"I still think I got more football knowledge than anybody on this site."
And you don’t know who David Amerson is?
I like him a lot next year
If he comes out. He has unique size for a corner. 6’3 190 but he as AMAZING hands.
Went to UC vs. NC State game
and he definitely stood out on the field.
And before you say what does he
have to do with anything, David Amerson led D1 in INT’s this past year, No. 2 was Baccari Rambo with 8 INT’s..
Keiwan Ratliff once had 10 interceptions (I think) in a season. He must’ve been a good player with play-making ability in the NFL…
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by Joe Goodberry on Feb 1, 2012 12:13 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
For my view,
I don’t know if racking up INT’s in college is a good way to rate someone’s ability. The only reason I even brought up the INT’s is because someone claimed that Barron led D1 in picks. Anyway, back to my point, number of INT’s can be skewed due to playing lesser opponents, or playing kids out of high school, etc. Yes, INT’s look nice, but they don’t really tell the full story.. :)
Oh i agree. I was talking to everyone in that reply.
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by Joe Goodberry on Feb 1, 2012 1:14 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
He also plays for Alabama
where the whole defense is stacked with playmakers. People hitting the qb as he throws or pressuring him and making him force a bad pass = more interceptions for the safety. You can’t just look at his ints compared to another player at another position on a different team and compare them 1 to 1. Apples and oranges dude.
Plus if you are looking for someone just to lay the wood, Taylor Mays and Robert Sands both excel at that. And Nelson did it quite a bit too this year… and we got a 15 yard penalty almost every time.
by Luke on Jan 31, 2012 9:32 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
we talking bout int here dude
And stop it. Richardson plays on stack line but he gets pass, Barron plays on best defense so he’s not that good. And u still have to catch and be in position for Int. How many int’s did our safeties DROP this year?
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 9:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm not saying I dislike Barron.
I’m just trying to point out the fallacy in your logic in comparing a stat for players at different positions on different teams in different systems, etc.
Just a quick question...
are you ever wrong? Do you ever listen to what people say and change your point of view? Or do you just believe what you believe regardless of anything anyone has to say?
by Luke on Jan 31, 2012 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I don't count Crocker cause he is horrid
But I think the only int that Nelson dropped was knocked out of his hands by Hall
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
"close to 4 drops"
tells me you don’t know
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
actually Brice Robertson
Unless you are talking about the fact that he started all 4 years which isn’t a fair thing be cause players develop at different rates
how about barron at 17 and gilmore at 21
would you both be happy then?
i wouldn’t mind that draft either
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
Switch, Gilmore at 17, Barron at 21
Paul Brown Stadium, where everyone's hopes go to die.
that’s a good reason. Do It
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 8:57 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
we can pronally grab them both
barron will make wr think twice about catching the ball
Do you ever read anything I say?
Or have any understanding of the rules in this game? Or understand the way football has evolved? Sigh.
you must have not watched all 16 game
the bengals continued to get beat down the middle of the field. i just think we need a game changer on defense and rey m is no the guy. who is you seem to know it all
No I got that
I question your statement that we need some hard hitting safety that will show those WR who’s boss. That’s what you imply in every single post without realising that the rules have changed and that safeties can’t hit WRs without consequences. Therefore, TEs have taken over the game and there is a need for cover safeties not an enforcer.
got u
i just feel we were missing that this year i dont like nelson or crocker. need an upgrade at those spots do no think mays is ready. we need someone smart like reed
I like Nelson
I’m not against Barron. I’m actually for him if he’s the BPA at 21. If we can’t get him, I love Harrison Smith.
I just question the need for an enforcer. I want a playmaker.
i
i thought nate clements was pretty solid made a lot of plays that made op for his age. pac mans a joke
Clements played ok for us
Though I think he’d actually be a perfect person to convert to safety. He was real good in run support and understands how to play coverage.
I get the feeling from a few 49ers guys I’ve talked to that Clements doesn’t want to play safety. One of the reasons they released him.
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 9:17 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Doesn't surprise me
He’s a CB. However, I do think he’d be a great FS. He has coverage skills and is physical. It’s too bad.
Watch the Rams game when they allowed him to play some under zones and fire zones. He looked just like a safety. And a good one.
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 9:20 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
That would be disappointing
He seems like such a TEAM guy.
I don't think it has anything to do with him not being a team guy
I think it’s more to do with the fact he still beleaves he can play CB at a high level. Often times, players our the last to realize there skills has diminished. Who knows, it was actually several years ago when I heard this and maybe he’s had a change of heart
Nelson hits hard and gets flagged
So would Barron
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
rey maualuga
if the bengals can’t resign lawson as a fa, does this leave maualuga even more exposed in 2012?
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
Not unless the Bengals draft Luke Kuechly or Moch or Muck or Rivers can replace Lawson.
Paul Brown Stadium, where everyone's hopes go to die.
I had the Bengals drafting Gilmore & Barron in my first mock a few weeks ago. Maybe you missed it?
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 9:05 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
2nd day on this site
been watching the bengals since 87 im 32 now
thanks
its a lot of fun being a bengals fan pretty stressful as well im from los angeles thanks
Welcome aboard!
http://mobile.cincyjungle.com/2012/1/14/2706353/bengals-draft-2012-mock-draft-1-0
Here was my mock from 3 weeks ago
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 9:14 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
What about all the safeties that come out next year?
You have to look at future drafts when drafting now right? Or do you consider Barron truly worth it, regardless of a need at safety?
This
And who knows, maybe Mays will work out and we won’t need to draft a safety next year either
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
a
im watching his highlights. he looks pretty good probally make a lot of mistakes but im sure berry and thomas did as well
Look for full games that are labeled "Player vs Team"
That way you see every snap that player plays, not just the good ones that make the highlights.
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
It’s becoming a trend. Safety play in the NFL is weak and it’s stemming from college football. It’s very rare to even have a player worth a 1st round pick at safety. Even when they are, they’re not complete players. Earl Thomas was small. Taylor Mays couldn’t cover. Even if these Jr look good now, their flaws get exposed in college. Especially vs the spread.
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 9:31 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Serious Question
I know most of us think the Bengals need safety help really bad. Here’s my thing: The Bengals have one good safety and in the NFL, teams are struggling to even find one good one. Other teams need safety so much worse than us. To my question:
*How many NFL Safeties would you take over Reggie Nelson?*
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 9:38 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
RE:
Technically, they don’t even have one good safety because Nelson won’t be under contract.
If they re-sign Nelson, he’s a top-15/top-10 safety
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by Anthony Cosenza on Jan 31, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
Top 10-15
Sure.
Near top 5? Nah.
I’d take Polamalu, Reed, Wilson, Byrd, Thomas, Ward, Landry, Whitner, Weddle, Allen over him to name a few.
They’re not massive upgrades but I do think they’re better.
Could add Clark, Berry and Collins to that as well
If I really wanted to :)
Absolutely
I forgot about them. But the point still stands.
i
i think we should resign nelson after i took a look at the available free agents
We should definitely re-sign Nelson
otherwise we need 2 new safeties…
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
Nelson is on verge of being elite if he continues to build on his progress
I think he needs help, we need to get him a complement like troy has in clark.
AMAS
Fair point
Could definitely make a difference.
How about Cam Chancellor
Paul Brown Stadium, where everyone's hopes go to die.
Polamalu I say no
He’s been declining. He makes a play here and there but otherwise ehh. I think Nelson is at least equal too of not better than Landry.
AJ Green = Optimus Prime
You guys are crazy
Polamalu was still the best safety in the league this year, declining or not.
Because even in his "decline"
teams are still wary of where he is at all times. Stats are one thing but he makes that defense as strong as it is. Without him, they’re not nearly as good.
I do agree that one more concussion and he’s probably done.
Eh I don't buy it
He doesn’t have that effect so much anymore
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
Of course he does
It’s not only my impression. PFF also rates him as the leagues best safety.
Seeing more and more teams
not shy away from where he is.
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
I don't agree just from what I saw watching him play
he wasn’t near the difference maker this year that he has been in the past.
AJ Green = Optimus Prime
I don't even see him declining
That being said, he’s one helmet hit away from being done. His style doesn’t lend itself to longevity. But I agree with you, he’s a beast. I dot even know if you can classify him as a FS or a SS. Hell you can barely classify him as a SAFETY. He’s a “defensive force” that just finds himself inthe middle of every play. For my money, he’s a better defensive player than Ray Lewis or Ed Reed. Only question is his durability. I don’t think any defensive player will be able to match Lewis’s production and longevity.
by eric nyc on Jan 31, 2012 10:17 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
RE:
Reed, Troy, Ryan Clark, Earl Thomas, Eric Berry, Weddle, Dashon Goldson, Dawkins, Nick Collins are all guys I’d take over Nelson.
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by Anthony Cosenza on Jan 31, 2012 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
I ll give you Berry, Weddle, and maybe Clark
but Reed and Dawkins on the verge of retirement.
Nelson already had a better year than Troy this year. Nelson is on the up while Troy is on a slight decline.
Thomas is not going to stop the run like Nelson. And I think Goldson is around where nelson is.
AMAS
How many more concussions can
Troy withstand before he has to call it quits?
not only that, but he has been getting beat deep lately
not a very good quality to have in a safety. Key word being SAFETY lol
AMAS
s
so i agree keep nelson but draft barron there are no other safetys in free agency better than nelson
I would disagree
Tyvon Branch and Michael Griffin are both better than Nelson and both are free agents. If healthy Landry is better than all of them.
"If healthy"
I dont’ know if you can count on Landry ever being healthy for a full season again. And even if he is, he’s not a free safety in the sense Nelson is. I think Nelson is easily a top 10 FS in the league right now. Given how hard it is to come by free agents and draftees, I’m happy with that. I am bigger on Nelson than a lot of people. i think he should be our #1 priority in terms of re-signing.
True, and I agree. People were clamoring for a safety even during the season.
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 9:42 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Good question.
I just look at it as having a unique opportunity. We have 3 picks in the top 60. We only have about 4 real needs. OL, RB, CB, S. OL is probably the most glaring need with every starting guard gone in FA, but the value might not be there. CB follows with Hall likely starting the year on PUP. Then RB with no real foreseeable answer. Then Safety.
So for me Gilmore, Martin/Miller, Osemele would be a dream. Safety can either wait until next year or be addressed in the 3rd round or later. In fact I’d probably say that WR is a more pressing need.
Harrison Smith
Safety in a later round
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
+1
I think I like the risk/reward with Smith better than I do Barron. Joe drafted him in his latest mock I think and I liked the way it played out. Just depends on who else is on the board.
I have been big on Smith also
While Barron may be more NFL ready, I think where Smith will get drafted will be a better value than where Barron will, considering I think Smith could be every bit as good or better than Barron someday.
Good way of summing up what I was trying to say.
I think both have a similar ceiling and one you can snag in the 3rd round.
Id take
Reed, Troy, Bathea, Berry, Weddle, L.Landry, M.Jenkins, E.Thomas, A.Wilson & N.Collins
Guys that are in same category as Nelson: TJ Ward, Byrd, George Wilson, Leonard, Dawkins, T.Branch, K.Phillips, Delmas, Goldson, Whitner, Godfrey, Kam Chancellor
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 10:14 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
illustrates a point the bengals have to address and get right this off season
a DB coach that can fix college players and help them make the jump to nfl safety. taylor mays is a paper tiger. we still need a coach that can unscrew his head, turning him into the player some scouts hoped he could be in the nfl.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
Next year safety class will be great
Mcdonald, Holloman, Lester, Armstrong, Johnson and Rambo will all be better than Barron imo.
I gotta check out some videos on this Rambo guy
I want him in stripes just because of his name LOL
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
And he's one of AJ's good friends.
I’d like to find more tape on him as well because from what I’ve seen he’s definitely a talent.
I think Georgia website has a lot of stuff with him
He is a bit short but he is a very good player and fun to watch.
Welcome QBG!! I'm from Miami. 42 yr. fan.
"What we do in this life echoes in eternity"
Maximus*
it been a while
its been a while since we had a decent safety
huge needs at S CB LB OL WR RB
But RB would be the last position I’d use a first round pick for.
I’m hoping for Gilmore and that center from Wisconsin.
Attention Mike Brown: One-and-done doesn’t cut it. You will see more empty seats next year if you don’t show the fans you’re trying to win the Super Bowl!
by occams_tiger_teeth on Jan 31, 2012 9:12 PM EST via mobile reply actions
but Gilmore and Barron works for me
I don’t trust this team to draft a LB either so I’d stick with DB OL.
Attention Mike Brown: One-and-done doesn’t cut it. You will see more empty seats next year if you don’t show the fans you’re trying to win the Super Bowl!
by occams_tiger_teeth on Jan 31, 2012 9:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
marvin's luck with round 1 and round 2 linebackers hasn't been spectacular
odell remains his best backer and one of those heart breaker stories for bengals fans.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
What if Miller is BPA and fills a need? Could you blame them? Note: I’d go Barron also.
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
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by Joe Goodberry on Jan 31, 2012 9:16 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
f
yeah rey m is soft i like lawson and howarw over rivers whats happening with mock and his migranes
I think Rey will be ok
This year will be make or break. He played well to start the season then fell off a cliff when he got hurt. He never got back.
I think when healthy and with an offseason, he’ll be good in the middle. If not, draft a MLB next year,
Rey cant tackle though
I’ll rather have slow but sure tackler Jones in middle. Rey is fast but doesn’t read plays all that good. And he misses half his tackles.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 9:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Agreed
He did miss too many tackles last year. 12 MT in 12 games. That’s not good.
It’s too bad because he had some amazing games where he basically took over and other games where he was flat out bad. Too inconsistent in his first year but I hope he’ll be better this year.
A lot of his MT came in the first few games when he wasn't injured
One of his best games was against Balt in week 17. I do hope he’s better when healthy though. He looked slower right after the injury.
can't recall which baltimore game it was
thought that game was one of his worst performances of the season. leach had him cold most of the game. if you say the 2nd balt game was one of his best games, it must have been the 1st baltimore game.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
hope so
he needs to fight off blocks better, ireally hope he pans out .
Plus, he missed four games with an ankle sprain, and I think I heard he had some
surgery after the season on the same ankle (I think, I could be wrong). With Roddrick Muckleroy already on IR, they may have pressed Rey to come back a little sooner than what might have been needed. Anyway, let’s see how he does this year… :)
No deal. Lamar Miller is not a good value at #21 overall.
There are other RB’s to be had in rounds 2 and 3 who are much better values there than Miller in Round 1.
If you want to sustain a playoff caliber team, you can’t reach for positions of need in the draft (which is what taking Miller in round 1 would be doing)
I don't think so
Most people have him as a late first round pick or the 2nd best RB in the draft. That’s not reaching.
Better value in the 3rd? Doubt it. However, I think there might be better value in the 2nd so I don’t mind taking a back there.
I do like Miller a lot though.
Is barron really that great??? Hard hitter who’s gonna get flagged like nelson in this powder puff leauge they play in now. Plus his front seven were amazing putting so much pressure on the QB that any one back there could make the pick
by towery10 on Jan 31, 2012 9:44 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Not saying he's not good
but you make a VERY good point
by Oregonbengalsfan on Jan 31, 2012 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
make no sense
That’s like saying Ed and Troy only good because they play on good defenses. U still gotta get ur self in position and make play. Our safeties be in Right position but either miss tackle or drop int.
by pray4gm11 on Jan 31, 2012 9:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
pick at 21
I know this isnt an immediate need, but if michael floyd is still around at 21, and if trent falls to 17. Wow!!!
by Jog73 on Jan 31, 2012 9:50 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
I think it's just now dawning on me how awesome it is that we have two first round picks
I mean I’ve been in the middle of these mock draft conversations for months and I was right here with everyone cheering the Carson trade when it happened, but somehow through all the noise and hypotheticals I never quite realized how sweet it is to have TWO first round picks! I mean how often does any team have this opportunity? Even these arguments get to be so much more complex because of all of the options. Mike Brown for Executive of the Year!
by eric nyc on Jan 31, 2012 10:01 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
AHHH that takes me back to 1998
I think it was the last time we had 2 first round picks and we went with linebacker on both of them.
That was the year Randy Moss came out
and we passed on him twice
and neither guy was really a world beater
defense still sucked afterwards.
Attention Mike Brown: One-and-done doesn’t cut it. You will see more empty seats next year if you don’t show the fans you’re trying to win the Super Bowl!
by occams_tiger_teeth on Feb 1, 2012 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
thank you palmer
with a hand wave to the browns (for knocking campbell out) and the raiders (for being desperate enough to pay for palmer)
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
by palewook on Feb 1, 2012 5:11 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
ha
Cedric Benson’s production has dropped and he’s averaged less than four yards per carrythe last twofour of the last five seasons
In other words, most of his pathetic career.
ha
Seriously. I’m happy Ced was able to pocket a couple million dollars over the years. I suppose that’s fair compensation for getting drilled in the head by NFL linebackers a thousand times. If I never heard his name again I wouldnt notice.
by eric nyc on Jan 31, 2012 10:32 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Ced Benson is the new Sammy Winder
yeah nobody remembers Sammy either.
Attention Mike Brown: One-and-done doesn’t cut it. You will see more empty seats next year if you don’t show the fans you’re trying to win the Super Bowl!
by occams_tiger_teeth on Feb 1, 2012 1:23 AM EST up reply actions
benson never could manage 4 yards per carry
reason the bears didn’t want him.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
I would love this scenario
Gilmore will be a stud and a lot of people on here know how big I am on Miller. Not hating on Pead, James, Polk, Martin or whoever but Miller has way more upside and elite talent than all of them. Is he worth the 17th or 21st pick? We can debate that all night. But like the post said, the Bengals haven’t had a running back that will be as explosive as Miller in quite a few years and he offers that more than any other back, including Richardson. Thats to go with a build that can take 20-25 touches a game.
You think Miller's a better prospect than Richardson?
I mean I can see him being more explosive, but I think Richardson’s shown a better total body of work. And I worry about Miller’s running style – he’s very aggressive and very vertical. I don’t know if he’s a 20+ carry back. Not without significant injuries. I like Miller, and he could turn out to be the next superstar RB in the league, but I could also see him being Kijana Carter. Something about him makes me really really nervous. Richardson seems like such a solidly built back…I just dont’ have the same concerns. At the same time, Richardson’s almost definitely going to go WAY before Miller.
No
I’m saying from the explosive plays part. Miller is the most explosive back hands down. I think what makes people nervous about Miller is the fact that he hasn’t played that much. Compairing him to Kijana really isn’t fair because that can happen to Richardson or ANY player we draft. I will argue that Richardson may become more prone to injuries because of his physical running style and the carries that he has already accumilated in college. I would definitely take Richardson before him but they are 1-2 in my mind and it’s not even close. Miller has a great build. 5’11 212-215 thats pretty solid and factor in his speed, thats why a lot of people have him as the second back after Richardson. I have been lucky to attend a lot of college football games in the past 5 years and Miller would be in the top 5 of what I have seen with my own eyes in the past 5 years . I’m not a pro scout or anything but my gut has been pretty good when it comes to players that I have seen.
As far as his running style goes
Yes he has some things that will be corrected with pro coaching. I would even argue that with the shakiness of our line that Miller would fit better than other backs not named Richardson because he hits the hole harder and quicker than a lot of backs mentioned after him like Martin,Polk, Wilson. It’s just my opinion, I could be wrong but if he becomes a Bengal or not, I see him as guy that will be a game changer and make a lot of pro bowls.
He's definitely a guy who could take it to the house with any touch
That’s something I don’t think we’ve had in a very long time.
yes, I think he could probably get up to 220....maybe
I think he is so refined for the little experience he does have. I think his ceiling could be as high as Richardson. He has amazing vision. Like I said, I like Martin and Pead but you kind of get a feeling what your going to get with them. They probably are safer picks but Miller has so much potential growth than them imo.
miller
I havent seen enough of him to give an opinion. But the last time we took a similar back we got burned with chris perry
by Jog73 on Feb 1, 2012 1:02 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Perry was much slower and ran behind an awesome line
He wasn’t nearly as talented as Miller is.
And Perry's strength was catching out of the backfield, not how the Bengals used him.
Paul Brown Stadium, where everyone's hopes go to die.
Well, the second year we did...
Later on, we tried to have him as our feature back, and that was DEFINITELY not his strength… :)
Not really a fan of Gilmore
I like his awareness on the field and he usually seems to be in good position but sometimes late. Best suited well back of the line of scrimmage, never really breaks but bends an awful lot.
The guy is good and can be great with the right Safety help.
Unfortunately the Bengals don’t have the safeties that can be there with Gilmore. I would prefer a smaller/ shiftier CB to deal with Antonio Brown, Mike Wallace, and Torrey Smith.
A Joe Haden type of CB: 5’11 190 Range.
S.Carolina’s scheme leaves their CBs on an island and forces the CB to watch the CB eyes in off coverage. If you see Gilmore getting beat on out-routes, it’s by design. Their plan is to make college QBs throw that all day.
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by Joe Goodberry on Feb 1, 2012 6:53 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Yes. He’s still raw, but his raw skills would add athleticism and play-making ability to this defense. Would be start over Clements? I’m not sure. But Nate goes inside in nickel and Gilmore would play 35 snaps a game still.
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by Joe Goodberry on Feb 1, 2012 8:39 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Your evaluation of him with the scheme they were running definately makes me like like him alot. But picking a RB in 1st round other than Richardson that's a huge reach
I Really don’t care who they pick in first round I’m just hoping we don’t use the lower rounds as bad as we did last year. No more projects I still think Casey Hayward will be the better CB : )
Later round picks tend to be projects
You don’t generally find a day 1 starter in the later rounds. It’s the ability of the coaches to teach them up that you should be questioning.
I like Hayward too
but I see Gilmore with upside and has the potential to be an all-pro. Gilmore size would be a welcome to our secondary as would his effort on running plays.
12/31/11 – PLAYERS TO WATCH: CB Casey Hayward is arguably the team’s top player, capable of locking down one side of the field and forcing opponents to look elsewhere for their passing yardage. Hayward is good enough to help out in run support and has enough skills to have helped out briefly on offense at the season’s start while it searched for its identity. – The Sports Xchange
At this point
Either player will be an upgrade and I would welcome either of them.
Well if Jenkins is gone...
This looks to be a solid draft if it plays out like this… Only knock is Miller getting surgery after the draft and won’t be immidiatley available for OTA ans voluntary camp. Both look to be raw and will need time to develope. Miller can be explosive and Gilmore does have a knack for the ball and looks to have good football field speed once he’s got it.
"Men often become what they believe themselves to be. If I believe I cannot do something, it makes me incapable of doing it. But when I believe I can, I then acquire the ability to do it even if I didn't have it in the beginning."
I think they are raw
but both are talented enough to come in day 1 to make a impact. I see them both having higher upsides than most at their positions.
I agree about Miller...
There isn’t a faster back then him in the draft at his size. Kind of like Mcfadden or McCoy. Gilmore might be will def be able to make an impact but higher side then others we shall see…
"Men often become what they believe themselves to be. If I believe I cannot do something, it makes me incapable of doing it. But when I believe I can, I then acquire the ability to do it even if I didn't have it in the beginning."
by Dwight Carter on Feb 1, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
I like the last CB we took from SC. :)
If we take Gilmore, hope he is like that.
He had hands of stone though.
Paul Brown Stadium, where everyone's hopes go to die.
I don't think so, at least I don't recall that being the case...
I remember him picking off Big Ben and returning it for a TD that turned the game right around. :)
I'm meaning his 1st couple of years in Cincy, JJoe could not catch any potential int, only his last few years did he improve in that department.
Paul Brown Stadium, where everyone's hopes go to die.
I would agree with that, he was not
known for his hands, but boy did he have speed… :)
Miller over Richardson, Period!
"What we do in this life echoes in eternity"
Maximus*
This would be a good 1st round.
Must get a CB round 1 too expensive on the FA market and is a big need
That second pick could be alot of things
Miller is my 4th rated RB
Richardson
Martin
Polk
Miller
So eventhough I love the Gilmore pick, I absolutley hate the Miller pick and would not like this scenereo at all
Huge reach at 17.........HUGE
What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.
Disagree. He’s a top 20 player for me.
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by Joe Goodberry on Feb 1, 2012 12:16 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Great tackler, he doesn't have 1st round talent in regards to covering receivers IMO
What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.
I think definitely does. Where did you see him getting beat? What didn’t you like?
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Feb 1, 2012 1:15 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I think he lacks elite speed and will not be a great man cover corner
What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.
I agree that he lacks Elite speed, but he’s no slower than a Darrell Revis or Nnamdi Asomugha. I don’t think he’ll ever be a pure man cover guy like Joseph is or a Tramon Williams. I think he’s very comparable to Dunta Robinson or Rashean Mathis. Good to Very Good CBs who can help in every phase of the CB position. He has Pro Bowl potential with a chance at top 10 CB status.
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by Joe Goodberry on Feb 1, 2012 3:03 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I just watched a some highlights on him
He’s definitely got talent and is probably a top 20 player on most draft boards.
AJ Green = Optimus Prime
....
Drafttek has him as th #51 player.
Walterfootball has him as the 7th best CB with a 2-3 round grade.
draftbreakdown.com has him as the 34th best player.
So he has talent, just not 1st round talent.
What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.
Who has him as a 1st rounder?
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Feb 1, 2012 3:04 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
this articles mock draft
What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.
by jimbasa on Feb 1, 2012 5:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I just meant be fair. You went out of your way to bring up his lower rankings. How about the people who have him in Round 1? I can name 4-5 but you’re the one who brought it up.
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Feb 1, 2012 6:04 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Please do then
What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.
by jimbasa on Feb 1, 2012 6:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Myself, Wes Bunting of NFP, Ryan Lownes of DraftBreakdown, Shane Hallam of DraftCountdown, Dan Kadar of MockingTheDraft and Chris Steuber formally of Scout.com and is now the Player Personnel director of the Georgia Force are 6 Draft Analysts off the top of my head.
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Feb 1, 2012 7:19 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Well I see him as a mid 2nd rounder as most do.
What do you do when there's no way out? Find a way to get deeper in it.
That's fine
I wasn’t arguing. This is part of the draft fun.
CincyJungle.com Contributor for the NFL Draft
Follow me on Twitter @JoeGoodberry for Bengals & NFL Draft talk
by Joe Goodberry on Feb 2, 2012 7:47 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
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