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Cortland Finnegan On Way Out Of Tennessee?

After six seasons with the Tennessee Titans, could cornerback Cortland Finnegan's time with the Titans be coming to an end? From the sounds of it that very well could be the case. And if he hits the open market, he certainly would be an upgrade for any team in need of improvements in the secondary.

And since the Bengals will be looking for additions in the secondary, it would be safe to assume that at the very least, they would consider signing Finnegan to play opposite of Leon Hall. Of course that's if Finnegan hits the open market.

Star-divide

As of Monday the Titans have not made any contract offers to the soon-to-be free agent.

"I can't negotiate with myself," said agent Terry Watson. "The Titans are going to have to put some numbers in a counter proposal."

From the sounds of that, it would appear as if the Titans have made little effort to retain Finnegan. But who knows what they are planning to do. Maybe this is a sign that the Titans intend to slap the franchise tag on Finnegan or that they are ready to move on without him in the picture.

If and when Finnegan hits the market, teams will move quickly to sign him. He has been one of the best cornerbacks in the league for years. And since the Bengals have an insane amount of cap space this offseason, it's rational to think that they would pursue him considering he would fill one of their holes.

For the Bengals, he would provide a significant upgrade over Nate Clements, Kelly Jennings, and Adam Jones. While Clements and Jennings both had respectable seasons, they were also inconsistent and consistency is something Finnegan would bring to the table. As for Jones, he didn't provide much production when he played. He was unable to stay on the field for much of the season. Finnegan would also provide the Bengals with a number one cornerback while Hall continues his recovery from an Achilles injury suffered during Week 10 against the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Last season Finnegan had 75 tackles, one interception, one sack, and one fumble recovery in 16 games. For his career he has 14 interceptions and has consistently been one of the top cornerbacks in the league. He has been one of the most durable cornerbacks since emerging onto the scene in 2006. He has played in all but three games in his career. Not bad considering all of the wear and tear cornerbacks endure every season.

It will be interesting to see if the Bengals pursue Finnegan if he hits the open market in March.

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yes please

he would make a great difference. Would have to overpay a little, but would be worth it, and Zimmer’s kind of guy.

Watching Stanford Jennings kick return in the Super Bowl was the out of body experience of my sports life.

by txbengal29 on Feb 21, 2012 7:13 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed, he would

Be a perfect cornerback not only in Zimmer’s system but in a tough afc north. The only thing is that this is the exact type of signing that the bengals never get done. I will be the first to agree that things have been different lately in the last few years with the draft and free agency (other than losing j joe), but if you grab him it will have to be early in free agency. Can the bengals do it? Imagine signing him and I don’t think you have to go cornerback in the first round. It would fill a large hole and free up so many more possibilities.

by thenailer33 on Feb 21, 2012 7:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

i really think they get a big guy this offseason

Or atleast push for one that chooses somewhere else. They need to get closer to the floor for next year they can’t go in next offseason 40 mil under cap.

by JCompton41 on Feb 21, 2012 8:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

i really think they get a big guy this offseason

Or atleast push for one that chooses somewhere else. They need to get closer to the floor for next year they can’t go in next offseason 40 mil under cap.

by JCompton41 on Feb 21, 2012 8:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Finnegan or Carr...

could really be a nice move for Mikey. Please open the wallet Mr. Brown

by bengal4life68 on Feb 21, 2012 7:22 PM EST reply actions  

See, I think Cortland Finnegan

would be a perfect fit here. The guy is a bulldog. He’ll come up in the box, smack you in the mouth, then get up and laugh about it. I love it. Not to mention, Zim loves press coverage. So does Finnegan. He likes getting his hands up in chin straps.

by whodeycommish14 on Feb 21, 2012 7:31 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

From everything I've heard about Finnegan

He is an absolute and utter d-bag. He seems to think it’s fine to talk trash about his own teammates. Talent-wise he’d be an upgrade, but at what cost?

There’s been a lot of talk on this forum about the Bengals not being the place for bad character guys anymore, but the team needs to make that true by avoiding guys like this.

by indesignkat on Feb 21, 2012 7:31 PM EST reply actions  

I've heard the complete opposite.

I heard he’s a great locker room guy but other players hate him because he talks trash on the field. If that’s the case, shut football down all together because there isn’t one player on the field that doesn’t talk trash.

by whodeycommish14 on Feb 21, 2012 7:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I'd say the most telling aspect is

Finnegan is a top notch CB, Tennessee has no reason to not bring him back

Unless Mike Brown owns the Titans too,there might be some issue’s there

He hasnt ever had off the field issue’s,i’d take him for sure………..Pacman has to go,cant have to much shit talkn,then much like Pac its all talk without the game to back it up

"A team is more than a group of individuals,its a group of individuals that come together to make a team"

by keithp on Feb 21, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions  

On the field....

…This guy is a huge D bag to the opposing players, I have heard he was a good teammate though.

Also do a Google search for Cortland Finnegan Cancer, the guy is out there supporting cancer patients by going to events and just visiting patients in the hospital. The guy may be a douche when he is playing across from you but I really think off the field he is a good guy.

by BobJones4980 on Feb 21, 2012 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

sign him if you can

I wouldn’t break the bank on him “you probably will have to if you want him”I think he would be a great afc north corner but what will he cost you in penalties?I love the intensity but “come on man” :)

by bengal t. on Feb 21, 2012 7:46 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

RE: Kelly Jennings

I went to the Seattle game last year and he was downright horrible. Obvious why they dumped him. That said, I think he progressed through the rest of the season and I’m hoping with more time in our system he will pan out and we are better at the position than we’re aware. I have my doubts they will re-sign Jones, but if they do I think he excels covering the slot. He is very quick and agile. Just way too small for the bigger, taller recievers in the league. Just gets out muscled

by frickja on Feb 21, 2012 7:52 PM EST reply actions  

Jones > Jennings

And IMO it’s not evev really debatable

by biggie22 on Feb 21, 2012 10:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

i dont really think they have much drop off

Jennings didn’t play bad near the end, actually he played pretty good at times. I think Jennings actually is better than Jones the more I think about it. I can remember more good plays by Jennings than I can pacman this year.

by JCompton41 on Feb 21, 2012 10:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Sorry

But I completely disagree. Jones played pretty well most of the year (go back even on here we were singing his praises for stepping up) and then had a bad playoff game and that’s all anyone wants to remember plus he was in more of an elevated role than Jennings. Even when Jennings appeared to be playing better he was still getting beat and our only saving grace is for the most part we were playing 2nd rate qb’s who missed the throws. If go have any of the games dvrd go back and watch and you’ll see exactly what I’m saying

by biggie22 on Feb 21, 2012 11:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Oh I agree completely

I just think he has less of a chance of making it back due to his arrest and the fact that he seemed to be getting shitty with the players on the sidelines towards the end of the season. Boys will be boys but his past troubles with police makes me wonder if his time is done. Is he facing another suspension? As for Jennings, I saw him play in Seattle and he was horrible, but I kept an eye on him through the season and I definitely think he progressed. He seems to be a sure tackler if he keeps a receiver in front of him, but he would still bite on some moves making him prone to getting beat deep which is huge when our db’s are usually playing “on an island.” I just hope, with some work from the coaches he will really step up. And I do think they will re-sign him unless we somehow get major depth this off season.

by frickja on Feb 22, 2012 9:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Jennings really progressed after that game though.

Watch some of his tape from later games. He got a bit lucky here and there (what corner doesn’t?) but he was a solid tackling corner and his coverage improved as time went by. I’d take him as depth and an occasional spot starter, which he was until Jones was healthy again.

"It’s time people started realizing just how good a player Carlos Dunlap already is, and that starts with the Bengals. They gave him a season-high 58 snaps and what was the result? Carnage on the right side of the Seattle line." -Pro Football Focus

by Doc Scratch on Feb 21, 2012 11:51 PM EST up reply actions  

i do remember finnegans

Skipping meatings and camp when his contract stuff was going on. Didn’t he just leave camp without telling people or something?

by JCompton41 on Feb 21, 2012 7:55 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

unprofessional...........sounds like a Bengal to me

"A team is more than a group of individuals,its a group of individuals that come together to make a team"

by keithp on Feb 21, 2012 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Tennessee wasn't going to pay him...

It was obvious during training camp they weren’t going to. I thought there was something to the extent that they had promised him a new contract at some point leading into training camp and then a resulting drama. I think the same thing that happened to Chris Johnson happened to him in terms of being promised a contract and then trying to say he had to show up to camp to even negotiate it.

Basically comes down to you’re going to have to pay more than what he is worth since he is a “top” corner. No way to avoid that. Do you spend large on him or shoot for someone else?

by Avatar on Feb 21, 2012 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

In that case

They wanted to get paid before their contracts were up,nowadays rookie contracts cant hold teams hostage for 3 years
i believe is the rule.

Depends on how many years,how much guaranteed cash,its so unpredictable
Does he become a cancer?
Does he remain a Pro-Bowl shit talkn machine?

"A team is more than a group of individuals,its a group of individuals that come together to make a team"

by keithp on Feb 21, 2012 8:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Can't knock the guy on contract negotiations

That’s is part of the game – holdouts, posturing

Game has changed now due to new agreement – but can’t hold that against him

by TX Bengal on Feb 21, 2012 9:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I can

Doesnt mean we shouldnt sign him

Ive never been a fan of millionaire’s player a game we all love,not honoring there contract

"A team is more than a group of individuals,its a group of individuals that come together to make a team"

by keithp on Feb 21, 2012 10:03 PM EST up reply actions  

But I’m sure you have no issue when the billionaire doesn’t honor the contract and cuts a guy when he’s injured, right?

I don't get it, I've bought my wife a vacuum cleaner for Valentine's day four years in a row, and she still doesn't understand.......
just how much I love her

by FrankWyt on Feb 21, 2012 10:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Not at all

He no longer can fulfill the obligation of the contract,
If i cut off my fukn hand,i’m not going to be able to do my job

Its not like these guys dont have a union that takes care of them for the rest of there lives

"A team is more than a group of individuals,its a group of individuals that come together to make a team"

by keithp on Feb 21, 2012 11:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok, even though I disagree, that was just one example of owners not honoring their contract. What about when they cut them simply because they make too much? or any of the other reasons. The contract was signed, why do you only have an issue when it’s the player?
The player has a limited time to set himself up for life, if you’re saying you wouldn’t do whatever it took to maximize that amount, I’d think you are lying.

And, I don’t know who told you they have a union that takes care of them for life, they certainly do not. Tenured players earn a pension, but that’s not for everyone.

One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.

by FrankWyt on Feb 21, 2012 11:28 PM EST up reply actions  

didnt Finnegan replace Pacman

Seems like a no-brainer to have that happen again

"A team is more than a group of individuals,its a group of individuals that come together to make a team"

by keithp on Feb 21, 2012 7:57 PM EST reply actions  

Adam Jones is getting a bit if a slight here IMO.

He cam bach from a bad injury and suffered another one only to return and play a decent game considering. I would look at him closely in OTAs and TC before throwing him under the bus. Let him get healthy then decise as he is a tremendous athlete who has shown he can play. That does not mean I don’t think we should go after Finnigan as well. We don’t know how Hall will be affected and even if he is ok we need four quality CBs to not onl toy play daily but for depth.

"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"

by JUNGLEJOHN on Feb 22, 2012 8:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes. Throw a nice deal to Finnegan.

That solves more than one problem for the Bengals. Obviously solves the Leon Hall problem but it also means our draft board opens up to best players around. Brandon Carr is another option and a younger one.

For all you Nicks fans out there, you do realize MB won’t pay big again? So that puts us do or die in the draft for a CB? Comfortable with that?

by BENGALS69 on Feb 21, 2012 8:03 PM EST reply actions  

There's our veteran CB!

Now get the checkbook out Mikey boy and lets do this. He would fit Zimms D great.

by Bigcatdaddy on Feb 21, 2012 8:15 PM EST via Android app reply actions  

Rats!

…Thatz too bad! the commissioner needs to step up and force mike brown to spend that money! he is a sandbagger! shame on him I say!

by Makebelieve on Feb 21, 2012 8:24 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Go Get Him

Losing Joseph was huge mistake.. here is the one opportunity in FA to instantly wipe that away. No other CB is better suited for us. There is no CB in the draft that even comes close to Finnegan when it comes to immediate 2012 impact. If Mike does this I’ll no he is serious.

by Jim Spann on Feb 21, 2012 8:24 PM EST reply actions  

I can't believe people want him

Signing him would be a classic Mike Brown move before he started giving control to Marvin (or whatever changed that made the Begnals start making smart decisions)

I think this guy would hurt more than he’d help. There has to be a better option out there.

I don't get it, I've bought my wife a vacuum cleaner for Valentine's day four years in a row, and she still doesn't understand.......
just how much I love her

by FrankWyt on Feb 21, 2012 9:01 PM EST reply actions  

Coming from a Pittsburg fan

Steeler’s better just worry about there own,there isnt any room for anything else

"A team is more than a group of individuals,its a group of individuals that come together to make a team"

by keithp on Feb 21, 2012 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t really have anything to worry about period. And luckily I wouldn’t have to worry about us signing Finnegan even if we were able to. If you sign him, you’ll see. I don’t know why people think it’s a huge deal that we can’t sign free agents. When do you ever see us sign free agents? Doesn’t happen very often, and when it does, it’s cheap back-ups or specific needs players they did their homework on.
By the way, “their”

I don't get it, I've bought my wife a vacuum cleaner for Valentine's day four years in a row, and she still doesn't understand.......
just how much I love her

by FrankWyt on Feb 21, 2012 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

What about your own Franky boy?

You have I believe 3 FA QB’s and I’m not sure who else but you might not be an active FA team but you sign your own right. Or is that one of those deals where "we didn’t want/need those guys anyway?

by Bigcatdaddy on Feb 21, 2012 10:42 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Oh no…I really hope we’ll be able to recover from losing players as great as Dixon, Batch, and Leftwich. Straight to the cellar for us. All I can hope is that we are able to find another person capable of holding a clipboard as well as those guys can. Wait…we did already…Troy Smith. Ok, forget the cellar thing, we’re Super Bowl bound, and it’s all because of how amazing well Troy Smith can hold a clipboard. I responded to who the FA’s are in your other post that looked identical to this one. There are not many to actually re-sign. I’d like Redman, Cotcher, and maybe Mundy, the rest can go.
Is “Franky boy” some sort of insult or something?
I’m sorry that you can’t come to terms with the fact that I don’t value certain players as much as you do. I’m not sure why you are making a spectacle out of it either. If you think Wallace is so great, good for you. Make Mike Brown go get him. Then when he doesn’t perform like a 9mil a year player, and you really want that first round pick back, don’t say I didn’t tell you so. But don’t worry, I won’t come rub it in.
Wallace has a top tier quarterback throwing to him, and he has had at least three solid receiving options around him since he came in the league, and he had an OC that was obsessed with chucking it deep. How do you think he’s going to help you so much? And how do you think it’s going to hurt us so much?

One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.

by FrankWyt on Feb 21, 2012 10:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't want him

Or any player that wears that piss yellow and black jersey. I’ve been a big supporter of not giving your team any kind of cap relief and certainly not a 1st rnd pick. You kill me when you throw out your personal attacks then act like "oh what’s wrong? What did I do?" I can take it from one of my own but you sir I cannot! If you can’t take a little criticism then like I told you watch the WPGA.

by Bigcatdaddy on Feb 21, 2012 11:07 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

If only I knew what you were talking about. I can’t seem to find where I couldn’t take criticism. Your imagination is as wild as a boar on moonshine (is that the saying?) What are these “personal” attacks you speak of? Are you messing with me or something? Look at yourself man, you can dish it, but can’t take it back, so the irony of the end of your comment warms my heart.
I’ll continue watching the NFL though, and not overrating players on my team, and not overreacting to a little cap trouble. I’m glad I could answer your questions.

One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.

by FrankWyt on Feb 21, 2012 11:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok, here’s the deal. I’m not doing this with you anymore. You have irrational hate for anyone who likes a team you hate, and that’s fine, I see it all the time. You think I made personal attacks, I disagree, so let’s leave it there. I feel you were more personal than I, and that is fine, it doesn’t bother me. Just ignore me, and I’ll ignore you, and things will be better. There are a lot of people at this blog that I have respect for and have had many good interactions with, and I’d prefer not to ruin their blog with this petty nonsense. I’m sorry that you were so offended by me thinking that losing Wallace was not going to sink us, and I understand that, since the topic was you guys getting him, I sort of stole the thunder of you and others like you that wish to “take us down” or “destroy” us or “cripple” us. I also apologize for having faith in the front office that that has delivered us fans 3 SB appearances, 2 SB wins, 12 playoff wins, a 127-64-1 record, and had only one losing season (6-10, which turned out to be a win, since it landed us our franchise QB) since they took over, while having a 91% success rate with 1st round picks, and finding players like Wallace, Brown, Sanders, Harrison, Redman, Keisel and Taylor in later rounds. Enjoy your irrational hate, and maybe see a doctor if your piss is the same color as the Steelers uniforms.

One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.

by FrankWyt on Feb 22, 2012 12:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Frank STFU

Why the hell are you on are page anyway you douchebag?

by Diesel2405 on Feb 22, 2012 8:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I know Frank and he is an okay guy.

Talk football with him and he will talk football with you. Yea, he is a Steelers fan but I have found him to be one of if not the most reasonable of them. To be honest, I agree that Wallace leaving won’t be a big deal to them and that their inablility to sign FAs isn’t that big of a deal either. They have built what we hope to build. I am not a Steeler fan at all but we have been predicting their demise for years and still end up behind them at years end. Lets beat them and win a playoff game before we start crowing.

"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"

by JUNGLEJOHN on Feb 22, 2012 9:04 AM EST up reply actions  

It’s not that it wouldn’t be a big deal. Obviously having him is better than not having him, but for a player like him that really doesn’t have much more than speed, I couldn’t understand giving him 9-10 million a year. That’s insane to me, and then on top of that, have to give up a first round pick? Yeah…no thanks.
He also seems to have attitude problems that are bound to come up to the surface eventually. He doesn’t fight for balls, he just leaves the QB hanging sometimes as well. He also doesn’t block, and he’s completely unwilling to take a hit. I think a 9-10 million dollar WR should do it all.

One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.

by FrankWyt on Feb 23, 2012 1:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Wallace would be a god #2, no doubt but I never saw him as a

stellar receiver. His speed gives him great opprotunity to get open but I don’t think he is a complete receiver. A good one yes but I agree he isn’t a 8 mil a year talent and he isn’t wprth a 1st round pick.

"If we always agree, one of us is not necessary"

by JUNGLEJOHN on Feb 23, 2012 8:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Exactly. Damn right he’s great as a compliment. But for that kind of money? AND a number 1? And people on here are bashing me and making all sorts of assumptions of my motivations or whatever, or pointing this out.

One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.

by FrankWyt on Feb 24, 2012 4:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Aww honey..You should know why I’m on your page silly buns. It’s because you are here.

One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.

by FrankWyt on Feb 23, 2012 1:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Finnegan roughs up those Pittsburg WR's

"A team is more than a group of individuals,its a group of individuals that come together to make a team"

by keithp on Feb 21, 2012 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

He does? All I’ve seen is him getting beat by Wallace, and then doing the old “if you can’t beat em, try to beat em up, but lose” that he did with Johnson.
I can’t remember any game against Tennessee where Finnegan was a factor.

One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.

by FrankWyt on Feb 21, 2012 11:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually his use of there is the correct use.

“Their” is a possessive of they.

If you are gonna be the grammar police, at least get it right!

by Luke on Feb 22, 2012 8:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Wait a minute, you’re saying “there own” is correct? What?
This is what he said

worry about there own

I’m sorry but that is not correct, and I already said, I was just being a smart ass.

One likes to believe in the freedom of music. But glittering prizes and endless compromises, shatter the illusion of integrity.

by FrankWyt on Feb 23, 2012 1:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Sign Finnegan and Grubbs

Will cost a little less than Nicks/Carr

Then draft a CB in 1st Round

by TX Bengal on Feb 21, 2012 9:59 PM EST reply actions  

Like it, not signing the top guys.......but pretty close. For us, these would still be big signings.

Cost-wise we can no doubt do. I know a lot of the above talk is about Finnegan’s attitude/demeanor on the field……my thought is: A defensive stopper who is fired up and gets in the head of the opposition to the point of gettiing them possibly kicked out of the game (see AJ highlight from a few years back), I’ll take him on my side. From what I’ve read the guy is a good teammate. I think of him as a Bill Laimbeer/Rick Mahorn type back when Detriot was the “Bad Boys.” Two guys that every opponent hated with a passion, but fans and teammates love having them on their side. I’d take him.

"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche

by The Van Buren Boys on Feb 22, 2012 9:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd sign Finnegan or Carr

Draft a WR, and an OG in the 1st

1st RD-Kendall Wright-WR
1st RD-Cordy Glenn-OG
2nd RD-Brandon Thompson-DT
3rd RD-LaMicheal James-RB
4th RD-Keenan Robinson-OLB
5th RD-Devon Wylie-WR
6th RD-Julian Miller-DE
7th RD-Bob Hebert-C

FA:
OG
RB
SS
CB

by Bengal4ever on Feb 21, 2012 10:18 PM EST reply actions  

I Wouldn't get Finn

I love Finnegan, he’s an aggressive and physical corner, but he’s older and the money he’s gonna want is going to be ridiculous. For me My top 2 corners in FA that the bengals should go after is either Carr or Grimes, if i’ have to choose one though it would be Grimes, because Grimes has been the #1 shutdown like corner down for the Falcons, and that would be a great tandem between Hall and Grimes

by thegrassisGREENer18 on Feb 22, 2012 11:13 AM EST reply actions  

Grimes and Finnegan are both 28.......

"The next person you see that throws something, point em out! You don’t live in Cleveland, you live in Cincinnati!"
- Sam Wyche

by The Van Buren Boys on Feb 22, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

2-3 year contract for Finnegan and draft a DB in the Draft

Dre’ Kirkpatrick Alabama
Janoris Jenkins North Alabama
Trumaine Johnson Montana
Stephon Gilmore South Carolina
Alfonzo Dennard Nebraksa
Leonard Johnson Iowa State
Chase Minnifield Virginia
Brandon Boykin Georgia
Josh Norman Coastal Carolina
Josh Robinson UCF
Ryan Steed Furman
Jamell Fleming Oklahoma
DeQuan Menzie Alabama
Coryell Judie Texas A&M
Casey Hayward Vanderbilt
Donnie Fletcher Boston College
Asa “Ace” Jackson Cal Poly
Trevin Wade Arizona
Terrence Fredrick Texas A&M

by Touhue Cha on Feb 22, 2012 12:29 PM EST reply actions  

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