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Bengals post-draft analysis

Note, if you're pissed off about the draft, then I understand. I put a more positive spin on the post-draft wrap-up that I think, and believe, can help this team. If you want to prove differently, go for it.

If you were to ask me "how the Bengals did in this draft" with only one word, I'll go with "solid". Nothing here blows your mind. Nothing will really pump you up like a Carson Palmer pick, or the string of productive cornerbacks the past two seasons. If you were to let me use two words, I'd use "long run" -- drafting a bunch of guys that will likely not make an impression this year, but could be contributors in 2009 and beyond. Perhaps the word should be, contributors. Or role players.

Cris Carter. I love Cris Carter. I grew up watching him in Minnesota. I enjoyed him on HBO's Inside the NFL. And I thought he did a tremendous job on ESPN's Draft Show. Oh, and he said that the Bengals had the best draft.

Keith Rivers. The Bengals selected their man at linebacker for a long time and Lewis wasn't afraid to call Rivers an All-Pro for many seasons. The role of "foundation development" was supposed to take place during the 2005 NFL Draft with Odell Thurman and David Pollack. Three years later, Pollack is retired and Thurman is just now returning after a two-year suspension. Guys like Caleb Miller and Landon Johnson are gone. Rivers offers the team quality leadership, sustaining defensive stability and (I hate this phrase) high character.

Linebackers shaping up. Rivers was the guy Marvin Lewis and company targeted if defensive tackle mega-god Sedrick Ellis was picked. As it happens, the Saints swapped their first round pick with the Patriots and offered their third for Ellis. While we begged for mega-god defensive tackle, I believe the Bengals acquired additional intangibles with Rivers.

At this point, the Bengals first eight linebackers could look like this.

  1. Keith Rivers
  2. Ahmad Brooks
  3. Dhani Jones
  4. Rashad Jeanty
  5. Odell Thurman
  6. Corey Mays
  7. Eric Henderson
  8. Darryl Blackstock

Of course, 6-8, you could probably mix and match players like Angelo Craig, Roy Manning, Jim Maxwell or Anthony Schlegel. Even so, that list is far more encouraging than how it appeared last season. We have a good pool of linebackers to pick from during training camp. Don't you agree?

No Chad Trade... but acting like Chad is gone anyway. If the Bengals were to make a trade for Chad Johnson, it would have been on Saturday, if at all. It didn't happen. The Bengals did a good job stocking the position with two quality receivers that will likely compete for a spot anywhere between #2 and #5. We're assuming that Chad is a man of his word and never plays for the Bengals again. While it might seem that the position will be weak in 2008 with youth, the Bengals quietly created a youth movement with Jerome Simpson and Andre Caldwell to go along with Glenn Holt and Marcus Maxwell and Louisville wide receiver, Mario Urrutia. With T.J. Houshmandzadeh, the Bengals still have Antonio Chatman and Doug Gabriel for experience. And as long as Chad and T.J. get the bulk of the practice and playing time, we won't see how good these kids are. Perhaps it's about that time. Let's not lie to ourselves. We are, after all, entering a rebuilding season.

Also, you have to consider that T.J. Houshmandzadeh is entering the final year under contract.

What we missed. I thought for sure the Bengals would address defensive end. Now the Angelo Craig pick could mean that the Bengals will use him as an end (doubtful though). Or it could mean that the team is giving Frostee Rucker a shot and think that Jonathan Fanene can handle that role. If that were the case, the Bengals would have a decent four player rotation at end if Rucker shows up and Fanene sustains production. Not mind blowing, but serviceable with Robert Geathers and Antwan Odom as guys with productive sack seasons.

Setting up a future of new tackles -- but trouble could be brewing. The Bengals could be in serious trouble with their offensive linemen this time next year. Willie Anderson is simply getting older and we can't imagine he'll be able to work through many more seasons. Levi Jones has expressed an interest -- though far less demanding than Chad -- for a trade. Stacy Andrews is locked up for one season. And after playing with a franchise contract, we can't imagine he'll come cheap. Though how many tackles are?

I liked the Anthony Collins pick up. Most reports say he's not ready and will likely be the team's newest project like Andrews -- with great results, I might add. If that's the case, and it takes a good two years to develop the tackle from Kansas, then Collins could easily slid into right tackle once Anderson retires.

As for the left tackle, we can only guess that Levi Jones will settle disputes with his coaches and get back on board. Otherwise, Jones could find himself playing with the Bengals for the final season while the Bengals feverishly knock out a long-term deal with Andrews. Otherwise, look for the team to address offensive line in next year's draft -- it was a need this year, it could be a must next.

Circumstances prevented the Bengals from stock-piling talented tackles. Too many tackles were taken too quickly in this draft -- seven in the first round. And it wouldn't have made sense to that this year. Anything can happen from this point until next year where Jones is back on board and Andrews signs a long-term deal. So the Bengals did the right thing and pick up a guy with big upswing that will need to be mentored for some time.

The Bengals would be wise using patience with the offensive line until more questions are answered. So stock other positions.

Defensive tackles. I'm not going to lie. I can't envision Pat Sims bringing that much more than Domata Peko. Some of you might be fine with that, but I've never thought highly of Peko as an every down defensive tackle. Cincinnati also took a huge risk in Fresno State defensive tackle Jason Shirley coming into the draft with character concerns.

I do think that the Bengals filled a talent gap at defensive tackle at a whole -- but didn't cover the ground I would have liked. Once Ellis went early, the Bengals had to go with Rivers at linebacker. After that, they lost their opportunity with Kentwan Balmer. Many will, and perhaps should, cry out that the Bengals went after a small school receiver while Trevor Laws -- the fourth defensive tackle drafted -- went one spot later. Though one could argue that there will be minimal gaines between Laws and Sims so waiting until the third round might have been the right move. In the end, we just won't know for several seasons.

A potential sleeper tight end? The Bengals were scouting Fred Davis and Dustin Keller in detail assuming that the team would go after a tight end. While none of us thought that the team would pick one early, we knew they'd hit the position eventually. Matt Sherry brings more dynamics with the team than just a simple third tight end. Consider for a moment that Reggie Kelly would likely play more H-Back than before -- where his talents are best utilized. With Ben Utecht and Sherry lining up in double tight end sets, it gives the Bengals a good look with fast pass-catching tight ends. For example, the team could line up big with two tight ends and pass the ball rather than run like the defense might expect -- we are, after all, a team of trends.

Why I liked the Corey Lynch pick up. With Lynch the Bengals solidify a special teams unit that's incredibly frustrating. He's an in-your-face tackler that can lead a group of talented special teams players for us. He won't win games on defense. He won't scored touchdowns on defense. But he'll be the guy that makes sure the other team doesn't do well on special teams. Admit it, we need that!

Conclusion. From the comments, I can tell many of you are upset with the draft. I still think this team did well stocking positions, addressing their biggest needs early and immensely improved their special teams.

They didn't impress with improving talent on the defensive line, but once the first two rounds had gone by, it wasn't going to be a significant talent increase anyway.

Anyway, that's my opinion. What's yours.

Poll
Finish this statement. The Bengals draft was...
  • Great. They picked up some awesome talent.
  • Good. A few starters, but good depth guys.
  • So-so. I expected so much better but I'll take it.
  • Bad. I could have done so much better.

  252 votes | Results

13 comments | 0 recs

With the 9th pick of the 2008 NFL Draft, the Bengals select USC LB Keith Rivers

As much as Curnutte's word in his blog post wanted us to believe that the Bengals didn't think highly of Keith Rivers, with their first-round pick, the Cincinnati Bengals select... Keith Rivers.

PERSONALY, like I said in the comments, I like this pick. Like many, I don't believe that Rivers seems like a godly play-blowin' up defensive player. What I do believe is that the team drafted a character guy (I hate that term), with leadership qualities and a stabilizing force for the linebackers group as a whole -- if not, the entire defense. We haven't had that guy at linebacker since Odell Thurman's rookie season nor do we have leadership qualities on the defense as a whole.

Again, it might not be sexy, but this pick will give the Bengals stability and leadership on defense for a long time. And we've desperately needed that. Worth it.

For the Team. I think through many discussions, most people believe this to be a safe pick. The Bengals lost several linebackers through free agency -- while Landon Johnson was the only real "loss" -- but signed very middle-of-the-road talent to one-year deals. With two fast bookends, the Bengals have a potential Odell Thurman, Ahmad Brooks and Keith Rivers look on opening day. And if the team goes after a big defensive tackle in the second round, the potential 3-4 make-up seems somewhat possible -- though still highly unlikely.

Marvin Lewis press conference with assistant coaches on drafting Keith Rivers. Main things to point out is that the coaches believe he's a first-year starter that will play at any of the three linebacker spots and be an All-Pro for many seasons in this league.

Here's YouTube video of Rivers.

What does this mean? Rivers will be the team's 12th linebacker -- seven of whom will be free agents after this season. The Bengals would likely play Rivers on weak-side, keep Brooks over the middle while Jeanty is the leading man at strong-side. Thurman is definitely expected to force himself somewhere while Eric Henderson becomes a questionable project. Would they take Henderson back to defensive end and add to the Antwan Odom, Robert Geathers rotation?

Keith Rivers reacts on his blog.

This is an absolutely surreal experience. I am numb right now. I'm not sure what to do - jump up and down or cry - I'm just so excited about being a Cincinnati Bengal. Coach Marvin Lewis made the call. When my phone rang it was an unknown number and I had some friends calling before that so I wasn't sure if I should answer it. I was thrilled to get the call. My agent called after that and told me Carson Palmer was jumping up and down. I will be too - I'm a Cincinnati Bengal!

Linebackers coach, Jeff FitzGerald: "He's a face of the franchise."

Here's Keith's reaction.

Reaction:

Scouts, Inc. gives the following analysis of Rivers.

Strengths: Possesses outstanding size; is well built for his taller frame. Also has long arms (33), huge hands (11) and a strong upper body (24 reps). Not an elite athlete, but he does have good speed and athleticism for his size. Makes up for what he lack in terms of elite athleticism with great recognition skills. He is smart, tough and instinctive. Shows very good awareness. Rarely takes false steps. Is a striker as a tackler. Will make some big hits due to his short area explosiveness. Uses hands well to keep off of blocks. He refuses to stay blocked. Takes excellent angles in pursuit. Displays good range in zone coverage. Also is an underrated pass rusher. Has developed a better array of pass rush moves, hugs the rail as he turns the corner as an outside rusher and displays surprising closing burst to the QB. Knows how to jar the ball loose and generates more than his share of forced fumbles. Plays with a very good motor and will wear blockers down. Never gives up on a play and will show tremendous effort when pursuing from the backside. He's always flying around the field. Leads by example.

Weaknesses: Plays too high at times and loses his power when he does. Does a great job of sifting through traffic but needs to learn to anchor better when he's forced to take on blocks in the phone booth. Shows a bit of stiffness in his hips. Will struggle to keep with elite pass-catching RB's in the NFL on double moves and when forced to turn and run. Not an established play maker in coverage. Good range in coverage but lacks ideal ball skills. Durability is a minor concern.

Overall: Rivers appeared in 37 games in his first three seasons at USC (2004-'06), recording 162 tackles (13.5 for losses), 5.5 sacks and two interceptions. As a senior in 2007, he played 12 games (11 starts) at weak-side linebacker, turning in 78 tackles (five for losses), three fumble recoveries, a forced fumble and four pass breakups. He missed a game (Arizona State) in 2007 after spraining his left ankle, which had required arthroscopic surgery to remove bone spurs earlier in the spring. He also missed two games in 2005 and was limited in others because of a hamstring strain. Rivers possesses very good  but not exceptional  overall physical tools. His outstanding combination of instincts, work ethic and experience is what separates him from other linebackers with similar skill sets. While he is the top rated linebacker on our 2008 board, Rivers is a notch below elite talents such as A.J. Hawk (Packers) and Patrick Willis (49ers) from recent NFL drafts. Some teams could consider him at inside linebacker but Rivers seems best suited to play the WILL in a 4-3 scheme. He should be selected in the middle portion of the first round.

This page will continuously be updated with Rivers analysis.

Poll
Are you happy with the Bengals selecting Keith Rivers?
  • Yes
  • No

  95 votes | Results

27 comments | 0 recs

If Ellis is available, would you still go after LB Keith Rivers?

A few notes that have impacts with the Bengals. But a quick note about the site. There have been serious hardware issues that the techies at SB Nation have been addressing the past two days. They claim that everything should be stabilized now. Let's move on.

A fairly healthy percentage of mock drafts are giving Sedrick Ellis the nod as the Bengals clear-cut choice. And most people are fairly satisfied with that pick. We need a talented defensive tackle, badly. But there's a scenario developing. The Rams, it would appear, are favoring LSU defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey as the second pick in the NFL Draft -- not allowing the Rams to go ahead and negotiate with their choice simply because of television coverage is ludicrous.

The New Orleans Saints also see Dorsey as a coveted pick, but they appear to be looking at defensive tackle nonetheless. Here's the problem. They've made it clear that they're interested in moving up the draft. It was generally expected that the Saints would jump several spots to pick Dorsey. But if the Saints leap-frog the Bengals, then Sedrick Ellis may be playing in the Bayou instead of the Queen City. I believe if the Bengals miss Ellis, it will be New Orleans that screws it up for us. Pete Prisco reports that the Saints are in trade discussions with the Rams, swapping first round picks and sending the Saints' starting left tackle to St. Louis. This could work out for us provided either the Rams or Saints pick behind the Bengals.

Palmer supports drafting Ellis while admitted Bengals fan, Kirk Herbstreit puts the smack down on the Cincinnati Bengals.

"There's talk about (USC defensive tackle) Sedrick Ellis coming in as a Cincinnati Bengal," Herbstreit said. "I don't know if he fits Cincinnati because he's got great character. He's an effort guy. He gives you 100 percent every snap. He's tremendous.

"I don't know if he fits in Cincinnati because he's too good a character. And yet, is he going to fall into the great abyss of the Cincinnati Bengals or is he going to be able to overcome that?"

"It's an embarrassment to this point," Herbstreit said. "I've been a Bengals fan my entire life, and I really feel at this point — I'm a big Marvin Lewis supporter and fan — but I think he and the staff have created the situation that they're in with Chad Johnson.

"I don't feel pity. I don't feel sorry for them. They kind of had rules for the team and then rules for Chad. This is where you are. Everybody has to be treated the same. In my opinion, this team is back to where we were four or five years ago."

Ouch! It would seem that Bengals and Reds fans are back to common ground -- other than playing in the same city of course. While the Reds are generally a depressing team to watch down the stretch of any season, the Bengals are depressing, well, all the time. Then the Reds introduce new ownership and hope went through the roof similar to how hope exploded after Marvin Lewis was hired. Now, the Reds fire their GM Wayne Krivsky and Reds fans are, while not depressed or anything like that, aren't so sure which direction this team will go. Bengals fans? Well, we kind of expect the worse and go ape-shit when the best (or better than "worse") actually shows up.

On support for Leodis McKelvin.

McKelvin likens himself as the next godly return man like Devin Hester. With the Patriots picking seventh, would they select him to replace Asante Samuel?

On support for Keith Rivers.

I'm with Mark Curnutte on this one. If Ellis isn't available, go after Keith Rivers. It's not that McKelvin is a bad talent or couldn't be useful. But Rivers would be a far more effective player playing nearly every defensive down rather than nickel and a few punt returns -- provided of course that we actually make the opposing offense punt.

I believe... maybe we should think Rivers over Ellis?

It's becoming clear that the Bengals are down to USC's Ellis and Rivers on their board -- with Ellis first. Even so, would you mind if the Bengals jumped Ellis for Rivers? As said on this blog before, there's serviceable talent at defensive tackle later in the draft. But the general consensus is that Rivers is the best linebacker while Ellis is not the best defensive tackle. Perhaps Rivers first, defensive tackle in the second round. There, you addressed two needs with decent talent on defense. With a returning Odell Thurman, two first round cornerbacks, you have to think this defense would immensely improve. Right? I know, I know. It's the Bengals. Blah, blah.

5 comments | 0 recs

To Draft, or Not to Draft, a Linebacker

CincyJungle made an upgrade. Read this first to get acquired to the site (like obtaining your old usernames).

After David Pollack's reported "lean" towards retirement, I thought it would be good to reexamine the team's linebackers -- and NOT talk about that jerkoff that runs around with Oil Slick's.

Let's first realize the obvious. It wasn't expected that David Pollack would drive into Georgetown, throw on some pads and start slamming bodies like a rackin' machen. There would be a season or two of discovering a comfort level like Palmer and his knee in 2006. So in most ways, the Bengals linebackers haven't shifted much in terms of managing the depth chart of their 53-man roster -- with the lone exception being Odell's reinstatement.

As of now, there's 11 linebackers signed with Cincinnati through 2008 -- five signed one-year deals this off-season. Rashad Jeanty, Ahmad Brooks and Dhani Jones are projected as the team's starting linebackers in a base 4-3 set (my assumption). Odell Thurman, if he shines during training camp, could unseat Brooks or join him over the middle in a base 3-4 set. In fact, if Odell plays to a tenth of what he did in 2005, I expect him to unseat Brooks anyway. I like big scary linebackers that play the role of bulldozer blowing up the "A-gap" blitzing the quarterback. But it would be safe to say that Brooks is still playing off his potential rather than his production.

Guys like Darryl Blackstock, Brandon Johnson, Roy Manning, Corey Mays and Jim Maxwell will compete for a roster spot and, most likely, be special teams players, barring injury to the starters. Eric Henderson, if all goes to plan which it never does, would likely become the first outside linebacker that either backs up the outside, or simply wins that position out-right. Corey Mays is also a solid backup.

With Odell Thurman returning. There's questions whether the Bengals will draft a linebacker early now that Odell Thurman in the mix. The obvious is, no. The team is basically set with linebackers and bodies for depth. Though I don't think that's a priority anymore. I still believe that if the team can't draft Sedrick Ellis, then drafting Keith Rivers early won't be a problematic choice. Though other choices could be just as beneficial. Our outside linebackers, while solid in their own right, are hardly the kings of talent. If we can upgrade through the draft, then we must. And granted, I know little of Rivers. Never much cared to watch USC games -- it was broadcasted late and these 30-year old bones are snapping awfully loud these days. So my question is this. Making the point that the team still needs to upgrade at linebacker, and if Ellis is gone, would drafting Keith Rivers first help the team's overall talent at linebacker to significantly improve the position? Or would the team be better off drafting elsewhere?

16 comments | 0 recs


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